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Thread: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

      
  1. #1
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    Default Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    Basically bit of an hypothetical one, as the thread says was Pearce eventually found out or was he unlucky? The reason I pose the question, we were doing well under Pearce until the Derby game and losing arguably two of our most influential players in Reid and Cohen in one half. Although we won our following game against a woeful Fulham, after that we went on that awful run of games.

    Without that bad luck, would we have gone on to win some of the subsequent games and maybe things would have been different, or would Pearce have been found out eventually regardless?

    This is not a criticism of Pearce, he is still a Psycho legend in my eyes.

    Ashley

    P.S. Talking of Derby I was working in Derby Tuesday night and switched on BBC Radio Derby to listen to their game as I drove home, woeful it was like wthcing paint dry in radio audio form. Made me appreciate Colin Fray and the Radio Nottm team a little more.


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    Freedman's coped pretty well without Reid, Cohen, Hobbs, Assombalonga (and Wilson and Mancienne for a bit). That tells you a lot. Even Billy coped for a long time until the injury list got ridiculous.

    That's not to say it didn't effect us and him, because it clearly did.


  4. #3
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    It's probably best to let Pearce's reign rest in peace. But that's just my opinion


  5. #4
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    there he was gone


  6. #5
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    I'm more inclined to look at his coaching staff than the man himself.
    The only criticism I can level at Pearce was he stayed loyal to them when things were clearly entering a dire state.


  7. #6
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    I think it was more a case of Pearce getting lucky in those early games the points haul was better than the performance deserved. Great player poor manager.


  8. #7
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    Bit of both really, he was found out after our initial great run at the start of the season but incredibly unlucky in some games during our barren run. All in all I have a feeling the players didn't want to play for him, or just didn't get what he was on about tactically.


  9. #8
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    Why is it that everyone wanted him booted out yet now want to talk about him


  10. #9
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDMANRED View Post
    Why is it that everyone wanted him booted out yet now want to talk about him
    billy never got a look in after he went


  11. #10
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    Quote Originally Posted by mudskipper View Post
    I think it was more a case of Pearce getting lucky in those early games the points haul was better than the performance deserved. Great player poor manager.

    This could easily be levelled at Freedman in a few weeks time, should he get a few bad results.

    It's funny how people's perceptions of things change very, very easily.

    Bournemouth could become a "lucky win" and Bolton could be seen as "just beating a poor side who were well in the game until they went down to ten men."


  12. #11
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDMANRED View Post
    Why is it that everyone wanted him booted out yet now want to talk about him
    So that those who contemptuously dismissed Pearce's great start as 'lucky' and 'new manager syndrome' can now point to Freedman's great start and say 'Look how right and clever I was', thus paving the way in 6 months time for being able to dismiss Freedman's great start and tell everyone he's not up to it.


  13. #12
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDMANRED View Post
    Why is it that everyone wanted him booted out yet now want to talk about him
    Still say i would have liked freedman and pearce combination, pearce bought a lot to forest great players for a start. Mance and tesche and a lot of youngster were prepared to come here because of his england youth team work. Dont think his tactics cut the mustard. But freedman for meantime has shown an ability to get the best out of a team like davies and also with the bournmouth game the ability to adjust and adapt our game dependent on our opponent and even davies wasnt the good at that even through his hours of tapes. Freedman seem a good motivator and tactician.


  14. #13
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    If you want an example of an unlucky game - Leeds. 2 perfectly good goals disallowed for offside. Bonkers.

    Pearce needed more time - this modern you get half a season or 3 months in Freedman's case now will only end in tears for us.


  15. #14
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    Pearce and Freedman are different managers, and approach things in a different manner. I don't think he was found out, in as much as he was getting used to the championship and club management in general after being away from it for so long.

    Freedman has come in, after years of experience in this league and he knows the teams in it very well.

    Think it is more a case of different approaches, and them paying off over different lengths of time. Just remember, for all the crowing about Dougie beating Bournemouth (which is an excellent achievement for him) - Pearce also did the same thing, in a very similar fashion.

    That is not to dismiss Freedmans results so far, but he has gotten off to a similar start to Pearce so it would be unwise to declare him wildly more successful.

    "I've been blessed with many things in this life: an arm like a damn rocket, a c**k like a burmese python, and the mind of a f**king scientist" - Kenny Powers

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    In a nutshell Hulk.


  17. #16
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    Sunshine has the advantage that he's the new guy. He comes with extra large confidence potion, from the 'New Manager Bounce' range. I hope he never finds himself in a confiednce trap like Psycho did, because we'll find out then.

    We shall meet again before long to march to new triumphs - Giuseppe Garibaldi | vivit post funera virtus - Emprorer Tiberius

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    I loved the bloke, but once teams started to nullify the threat of Antonio and Assombalonga Pearce's one and only plan backfired. By the end of his reign he started putting players anywhere to stop the rot. I'm thankful for his hardworking mentality and endeavour but sadly it wasn't to be.


  19. #18
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    I feel obliged in the face of expert analysis to point out that there was an element of our playing staff who were unwilling to give 100% for the manager or for us.


  20. #19
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    Look we need to forget about Pearce the manager, he tried, he failed now I just want to remember him as psycho great player, club captain and legend


  21. #20
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    Time will tell, I suppose. Pearce should have been given more time. Have we just begun the downward spiral again, or will Freedman keep it spinning long enough to arrest the unwinding? In his first 5 games he's certainly be stricken by the unlucky injury stick. Hopefully his man management skills and tactical nous will enable him to work round it.


  22. #21
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    You aren't unlucky over 20-30 odd games it's as simple as that.


  23. #22
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    He was found out, absolutely.
    Even when we won the league in September, our standard of football in the games we were winning was poor. A Sunday league manager could have told you what Forest's best team was at the time.
    Once the 'new manager' smell had gone, he didn't have a clue what he was doing.

    Annoyed me he didn't start straight away, turned Forest into a boring side and left way too late. He should have gone before the Wolves/Norwich games and maybe thats only a few months but most times in football things go south and stay south.

    As a man, he's to be admired but Danny Mills had it spot on, regardless of his personal feelings.


  24. #23

    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    Bracketing things into "good" or "bad" is too simplistic a way of looking at things, often it's about best "fit"

    Pearce's tactical style simply did not suit us, nor did his methods of motivation. For Pearce to have been successful here he would have needed a lot of time, in order to breed his ethos throughout the club, and a lot of backing in order to move players on who didn't tow the line. It was also clear that he and his backroom team missed obvious things about the opposition, and operated on very basic logic (i.e. Reid injured, Ince in - really, bad decision, obviously bad at the time)

    But he's clearly a massive draw with signings, recruits great, and had a massive influence off pitch too. Had we lived in an era which afforded that time, and had he adjusted his backroom setup over it, we could have built something humongi.

    As for Reid & Cohen, that highlighted the weakness in Pearce's methods. At the start of the season he'd got his generals on side and thus proceeded to whip the young guns into shape. Trouble is, when those 3 generals get injured, suddenly the stick methods start to fall apart. Their injuries hurt us even more this season because of that.

    Pearce is and always will be a legend. His aquisitions are still benefitting us, and thus he deserves big credit for part of our success now.


  25. #24
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    luck has nothing to do with shit boring hoofball


  26. #25
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    Default Re: Was Pearce unlucky or was he found out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-Hasawi View Post
    Bracketing things into "good" or "bad" is too simplistic a way of looking at things, often it's about best "fit"

    Pearce's tactical style simply did not suit us, nor did his methods of motivation. For Pearce to have been successful here he would have needed a lot of time, in order to breed his ethos throughout the club, and a lot of backing in order to move players on who didn't tow the line. It was also clear that he and his backroom team missed obvious things about the opposition, and operated on very basic logic (i.e. Reid injured, Ince in - really, bad decision, obviously bad at the time)

    But he's clearly a massive draw with signings, recruits great, and had a massive influence off pitch too. Had we lived in an era which afforded that time, and had he adjusted his backroom setup over it, we could have built something humongi.

    As for Reid & Cohen, that highlighted the weakness in Pearce's methods. At the start of the season he'd got his generals on side and thus proceeded to whip the young guns into shape. Trouble is, when those 3 generals get injured, suddenly the stick methods start to fall apart. Their injuries hurt us even more this season because of that.

    Pearce is and always will be a legend. His aquisitions are still benefitting us, and thus he deserves big credit for part of our success now.
    You're right you can never say all was great or all was rubbish about any single manager that has ever existed. The good stuff has to outweigh the bad though or at least, the good comes with the more important factors.

    Stuart Pearce is far, far from one of the worst managers we've had at this club. For a manager who has IMO done badly there's a lot of good to come out of his stint here considering.

    I think he had the players on side with him. I think we became by modern standards pretty admirable in our treatment of officials and general conduct as a team and in a wider sense I suppose as a club. I think he's used his contacts, his nous and partly his name to bring some real quality players into the club as well who we now have secured down. Given our situation now regarding transfers was always inevitable regardless of how much was spent last summer, I don't think it can be underestimated how important that was in particular.

    To me personally, it was always a case of what I think is the hard side of management, identifying and recruiting quality players (it sounds simple but that many managers balls it up!) I think he had players on side with him, even when we were down in the dumps and I think they all, or at least most wanted to play for him as their manager. You don't get players running away from a crowd towards the dugout after a last minute winner at the iPro if the players don't enjoy working under you.

    Then the basic stuff, how we approached games, how we set up, how we utilised players abilities in the jobs we gave them on a football field is where to me it really went wrong and what ultimately cost us and him.

    Any manager who gets a win at the iPro will always have a level of respect from me. He was not the right manager for us, I don't think he'll ever make a successful manager personally but I will always remember the Derby day win when I think of his tenure, which will always prevent me from saying he was terrible for us.


 

 

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