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Thread: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

      
  1. #1
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    Default the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    We forest fans can be a fickle bunch so who would win, players that we have case aside/deemed worthless or players that have perhaps undeservedly achieved hero status in our eyes? And who would be in each team?

    Provisional underrated xi

    ------------------Paul Smith-------------------
    Jack Hunt-Matrecano-Danny Collins-Bret Williams
    Abdoun---Carlton Palmer-Sammy Clingan-Paterson
    ------------Tyson-------McGregor--------------


    Provisional overrated xi

    ----------------Big Norm-----------------
    Des Lyttle-Kelvin Wilson-Luke Chambers-Louie-Jean
    Gary Crosby-Scot Gemmill- Neil Webb- Kingsly Black
    -----------Jason Lee--Huckerby


    Now all these players are provisional at the mo and i am of course likely to be wrong/subject to derision.


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    I wouldn't put Kelvin Wilson anywhere near an overrated XI. Him and Morgan were superb 09/10 and definitely the best pairing I had seen for years. He has had rotten injuries in his second spell, I'm sure if he could get a proper run he would regain that kind of form.

    In modern times Paul McKenna deserves a place in the underrated XI in my opinion. He was vital to that team, despite him not being flashy - but that was his job.


  4. #3

    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    I think Des Lyttle has more of claim to be in the Whipping Boys XI


  5. #4
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    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    It's no good disagreeing with my picks if you don't provide an alternative!


  6. #5

    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    Neil Webb overrated?

    Delete thread.


  7. #6
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    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Benali (on loan) View Post
    Neil Webb overrated?

    Delete thread.
    Can I save it by adding the addendum "2nd spell"?


  8. #7

    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    He wasn't the same player after his injury. But I read somewhere he was there at every game in the relegation season wishing the team well despite being unavailable.

    He's my favourite footballer of all time. I'm not having it.


  9. #8
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    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Benali (on loan) View Post
    Neil Webb overrated?

    Delete thread.
    One of the finest players to wear the red jersey in the last 25 years


  10. #9
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    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    Carlton Palmer

    Grant Holt should be in the underrated xi (though may need a change of formation if directly replacing Palmer; though having said that he suddenly became a great midfielder when playing for Huddersfield against us so maybe not).


  11. #10
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    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    Scott Dobie should be a starter in the whipping boys 11 as should Gary Holt.

    Lansbury should be in the overrated 11

    The beast is stirring yet again!! :devil:

    it has nothing to do with football or NFFC

  12. #11
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    Default the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    I would be tempted to stick Steve Chettle in the overrated 11.

    Last edited by puds1970; 16-02-15 at 07:20.

  13. #12

    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    Black, Gemmill and Crosby could (at certain times/in terms of overall legacy) be in the other team so I'd say that should rule them out of the one they're in too! Or maybe I just don't like seeing them in there.

    As it is though, the over-rated team would be severely under-rated by suggestions the under-rated team are just as good or we need to ask which is the better team.....in my opinion (or this one could be a fact).

    I don't think Carlton Palmer at Forest was under-rated. I think Graham Taylor (maybe nobody else) over-rated him. McGregor is a decent call, but if he'd played more he'd maybe have been rated as he should or would have dipped from his best form or grown into a better player; same for Phil Starbuck.

    I half expected Pearce to be in the over-rated team though and that would have caused forum destruction. Webb by comparison isn't going to have the same effect (unless Francis has some ideas!).

    Let's be honest though, Gary Charles should.....(no, I'll not say that one).

    I could have gone with Franz Carr being over-rated (or over-hyped) but then again he's under-rated when anyone says he couldn't pass/cross a ball to his own team-mate.

    By definition, we're not going to get widespread agreement on this topic though I suppose. How can someone be over-rated if nobody rates them (and vice versa)? Stick Lester and David Johnson in over-rated I say (see, someone's going to disagree with that). Before deciding on Majewski for example we'd need to know how he is rated - has he been over-rated in certain spells or was he just playing really well for a time. Maybe he got under-rated in his bad spells?


  14. #13

    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    If Clingan is considered about 1/10th as good as Scot Gemmill though maybe the teams are correct, as he's actually 1/9th as good.

    I think players go through under-rated and over-rated periods though, otherwise known as good and bad form. If people expected Gemmill should be as good in 92/93 as in 91/92 then for that time he was over-rated/valued compared to how he performed. But anyone wanting out the team early in 91/92 was proven to have under-rated him.


  15. #14

    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    On the other hand, heroes is a big word and whipping boys is a lowly description. Maybe only Webb should be deemed an absolute hero (and yeah it's possible some of us could have over-hyped him in his best moments but he was still a great Forest player). But are any of those others really seen as being among the Forest heroes? Crosby (due to Clough picking him all the time), Black (due to his fee and people wondering if he'd be the new John Robertson - so he was over-hyped for a couple of weeks maybe) and Gemmill (due to replacing a quality Garry Parker out of the blue, being Archie's son and maybe not getting stuck in as much as say a Steve Stone would/could) all flirted with being (some peoples) whipping boys even while playing well in good teams (due to a touch of poor form carrying over into the times they were playing well again).

    They all feature in my video here though (can you make one with Clingan/Palmer starring in a similar way?):


    Huckerby would be over-rated only based on expectation that he'd be the Coventry Huckerby again I suppose?
    Louis-Jean (as a right back)? - Maybe cos he gets a lot of praise, but maybe I and the OP under-rate him or missed some of his best form. Maybe Bonalair was better (but like I say I'm wrong if people disagree and I'm wrong if they don't I guess).


  16. #15
    Victor Meldrew
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    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    Paul Gerrard
    Defender John Curtis
    Defender/Centre back Wes Morgan
    Defender/Centre back Ian Breckin
    Defender/Midfielder John Thompson
    Defender/Left back Julian Bennett
    Midfielder Sammy Clingan
    Midfielder Nicky Southall
    Forward Grant Holt
    Forward Jack Lester
    Forward Nathan Tyson

    This was the team that lost 3-0 to Oldham in 2006 costing Gary Megson his job and leaving us four points above the relegation zone in League 1.


  17. #16
    Victor Meldrew
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    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    David Prutton.


  18. #17

    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    Not sure how Jason Lee is in the overrated team. He was nationally humiliated. Maybe Persecuted XI?

    And some people remember Mark Crossley's errors at Portsmouth or Blackburn. But he was an excellent keeper at times. Played over 300 games for very good Forest sides, and still played in the Premier League long after Forest left it. And I challenge anybody to find a better goalkeeper anywhere at saving penalties.


  19. #18

    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    Anyway, not to under-rate the OP's thread too much but for example is David Phillips under or over rated? If everyone would agree he's under-rated then he's not. Gianluca Petrachi (he was a whipping boy, but he also got gushing praise in certain games)?

    I could suggest Terry Wilson, Gareth Williams and Darren Wassall were under-rated (did well, under the radar compared to team-mates) but I'm not sure if they were ever whipping boys (maybe Wilson occasionally?) and like I say if nobody disagrees then who is under-rating them?

    Jason Lee was a cult hero more than seen as a really good player I'd say. It's difficult (no offence to the OP).

    Maybe Lee Glover was better than some who abused him would say. Maybe PVH was over-rated cos he wouldn't have done the same had he stayed and played in the PL. Those might be my choices. But PVH rattled in nearly 30 goals wasn't it in the promotion season, and Glover wasn't a key player for promotion in 93/94 overall although he contributed like vs Leicester (we'd have won that with a Grandma up front though perhaps). Difficult.


  20. #19
    Victor Meldrew
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    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -


  21. #20

    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kjetil Osvald's Cat View Post
    If Clingan is considered about 1/10th as good as Scot Gemmill though maybe the teams are correct, as he's actually 1/9th as good.

    I think players go through under-rated and over-rated periods though, otherwise known as good and bad form. If people expected Gemmill should be as good in 92/93 as in 91/92 then for that time he was over-rated/valued compared to how he performed. But anyone wanting out the team early in 91/92 was proven to have under-rated him.
    Need your input on team selections. Coming up


  22. #21
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    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    David Johnson in the overrated team (I'm reading that as recipients of undeserved hero worship, I will acknowledge he had one exceptional season)


  23. #22
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    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    Andrea Silenzi of Nottingham Forest

    Andrea Silenzi of Nottingham ForestItaliani alla conquista del mondo. Storie e aneddoti di calciatori che sono emigrati all’estero nel tentativo, non sempre riuscito, di tenere alto il nome del Belpaese. Vittorie, sconfitte, meteore, bidoni, campioni, gol e parate: omaggio a chi ha portato in giro per il globo il nostro Tricolore.

    Pochi, nel 1995, se avessero dovuto scommettere sul primo italiano in Premier League, avrebbero indicato quel ‘pennellone‘ lungo e magro, che rispondeva al nome di Andrea Silenzi. Nella Serie A di metà anni ’90 giravano calciatori del calibro di Zola, Signori, Vialli, Ravanelli, Chiesa, Muzzi, Casiraghi, Baggio; insomma, senza che Silenzi ce ne voglia, gente di caratura decisamente superiore.

    Quell’estate 1995 era stata particolarmente movimentata per la formazione del Nottingham Forest: dopo un epico campionato chiuso al terzo posto da neopromossa, aveva visto partire il goleador della squadra, Stan Collymore, in direzione Liverpool. Figura, quella del trasgressivo Stanley, di difficile rimpiazzo, in una realtà piccola ma esigente come quella situata nel Nottinghamshire.

    Frank Clark, allenatore dei Reds, ebbe però un’intuizione…da 1,8 milioni di sterline: Andrea Silenzi, centravanti 29enne di Roma, in forza al Torino di Nedo Sonetti, dopo un biennio a Napoli e, soprattutto, all Reggiana, dov’era esploso come calciatore. Il suo acquisto fu benedetto da una leggenda del calcio come Gary Lineker, che disse: “He’ll be the signing of the season”, “Sarà l’acquisto della stagione”. Il primo italiano in Premier League.


  24. #23
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    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    Jürgen Röber and Raimondo Ponte in the underrated XI.

    "Outside the family life, there is nothing better than winning the European Cups." Brian Clough

  25. #24

    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Benali (on loan) View Post
    Need your input on team selections. Coming up
    Ok, I'm ready.

    On second thoughts on this thread, the overrated heroes description is two-pronged I suppose - the heroes bit is building them up for the overrated bit to knock the down. Maybe players like Black, Gemmill and Crosby would still rather be in that team. Webb would just find it outright bizarre to be in one which has whipping boys in the title.


  26. #25

    Default Re: the big match- nffc underrated whipping boy xi vs the nffc overrated heros xi -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    Jürgen Röber and Raimondo Ponte in the underrated XI.
    Einar Aas too?

    Read a certain way the overrated heroes description could fit a Johnny Metgod or I guess an Ian Storey-Moore even? But they were heroes nevertheless.


 

 

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