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Thread: Promotion in The 1st Season

      
  1. #1

    Default Promotion in The 1st Season

    Is it a realistic target for any new manager at a club which has had 15 years outside the Prem and recent total instability like ours? Every year it's a rebuild and these things take time to settle and gel.

    Are there any other examples of clubs which have been outside the Prem for as long, but have had a new manager take over and take them up that year?


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    Its more realistic next season than having a poisonous bottler in charge that's for sure.

    As with any manager, how he is backed should determine what is realistic.

    I'd be hoping for top 6. But will go to matches and speak to people with pride that we are managed by Stuart fucking Pearce.


  4. #3
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    No, no and a thousand times No.

    Fawaz, put undue pressure on both Davies and the other unmentionable manager, when he sacked SOD because he wanted promotion. The fans reacted to this with a huge leap in expectations.

    This growth period wants to be cool and under the radar, no pressure, lets learn to play how SP wants and take it from there.


  5. #4
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    This season has been wasted and ends with the squad in a big mess. I can't imagine any club has managed to turn such instability into immediate success the following season.

    Regardless of whether people liked the previous manager or not, the fact is we are back to square one again in terms of the team. New manager, new ideas, new player favourites/dislikes, new signings. We'll probably be waiting until around Xmas for players to settle in, the new team to gel, and for players to get used to the new manager's ideas.

    It's not realistic to expect promotion next season, but if all goes well and injuries don't derail the season again, a top six finish is possible.

    "Outside the family life, there is nothing better than winning the European Cups." Brian Clough

  6. #5

    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    Excellent posts Sedge & Ravi, pretty much my view on things too.

    Has any manager ever actually done it? I know managers have taken sides up in their 1st season, but often in a few years of relegation from the Prem, or on the back of lots of stability. Not after over a decade out the Prem & with constant change

    I think whoever takes over now faces a massive task to get us promoted at the 1st attempt. Not impossible, but it would be a heck of a feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKenzie View Post
    Its more realistic next season than having a poisonous bottler in charge that's for sure.

    As with any manager, how he is backed should determine what is realistic.

    I'd be hoping for top 6. But will go to matches and speak to people with pride that we are managed by Stuart fucking Pearce.
    What?

    Let's try again. In your opinion is it or isn't it realistic for us to be demanding promotion from Pearce, or any other future manager in the first season?

    Backing can't be deemed as the be all and end all - look at Man City in their first season. Some things just need time.

    Also, how much of that backing is negated & undone by "over-backing" managers with players they don't want or need, and who's attitude doesn't fit in with the squad? It's alright saying a manager may spend 1m on a player that he's been backed, but then if the owner buys a 1.5m player who makes the manager's buys pissed off his backing has been undone hasn't it?

    Last edited by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery; 13-04-14 at 12:26.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    Forest 2014/15.

    Also, this season isn't over yet.


  8. #7

    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    Quote Originally Posted by sedgred View Post
    No, no and a thousand times No.

    Fawaz, put undue pressure on both Davies and the other unmentionable manager, when he sacked SOD because he wanted promotion. The fans reacted to this with a huge leap in expectations.

    This growth period wants to be cool and under the radar, no pressure, lets learn to play how SP wants and take it from there.
    I agree with this


  9. #8
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    We're not actually a million miles away in terms of squad if we keep hold of all the players worth keeping. 2/3 1st choice players, 2 strikers and a wide man and we have a team as good as anyone in the division. The problem will become apparent when we need to start looking at squad players.
    We either need alot of luck with injuries or signings for automatic but I believe that playoffs is a reasonable target.


  10. #9
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    I'll be happy to wait for a few seasons providing there are signs of progression and not just the usual lurching from disaster to disaster we usually get at Forest. I'm not so confident that will happen


  11. #10
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    Leave it to Mr. Pearce.

    Time spent is time invested.

    "It is better to live one day as a lion, than one hundred years as a sheep"

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    Quote Originally Posted by sedgred View Post
    No, no and a thousand times No.

    Fawaz, put undue pressure on both Davies and the other unmentionable manager, when he sacked SOD because he wanted promotion. The fans reacted to this with a huge leap in expectations.

    This growth period wants to be cool and under the radar, no pressure, lets learn to play how SP wants and take it from there.
    Agree with you Sedge.


  13. #12
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    I think with Pearce what we have is a solid manager who loves the club and vice versa and will get on with things without drama, which has been our downfall. I would expect a relatively quiet few years with off-the-field stuff from now on. Next year was supposed to be our year with Billy, but Billy decided to be a complete tool and be himself.

    Stability wasn't a long way off until Billy decided to be a cock. I believe with Pearce we can have good stability and get on with things without drama.


  14. #13
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    When we managed to get our full team out, we actually looked good. It would be unnecessary for a total re-build; everyone can see this so let's hope Psycho thinks the same. As I've tried to say to the Billy Brigade, he lost his job for reasons other than our injury situation. He had assembled a pretty good squad, although he plainly didn't always have the tactical nous to use it effectively. I hope our new manager is doing his homework now. IMHO, all we need is one or two players (and a couple of good squad players); oh, and a little bit of luck. I can't see why some people on here are tearing their guts out.


  15. #14
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    I don't know, it's more possible with everyone pulling in the same direction for once. Bruce did it at Hull, QPR were a total mess till Warnock came in, Hughton had a very good squad, Di Matteo pounced when we faltered, Lambert twice on the bounce. MCclaren? likeable managers with a bit of nous.

    It's certainly possible, we are running out of time too.

    Last edited by Beasty; 13-04-14 at 15:29.
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  16. #15
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    Let's face it, we'll never go up again, so we might as well enjoy having Stuart Pearce in charge, fuck it, I'm just gonna try and enjoy it until we inevitably fail again and again.

    I'll probably never have any memories of my own with regards to trophies or anything like the older generation keep telling me about, so I'm just gonna have a go at enjoying away days and things like that.

    Oh topic, no, it's not enough time. Pearce will get 2 years though, I'm convinced.


  17. #16
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    I just expect 100% from every one involved from fawaz down. I don't expect to win every game I do however expect the people involved for the club I love to at least slightly appreciate the privileged position they are in and act accordingly. I don't expect us to win the league unless Pearce comes out and tells us that's his remit. Whatever happens, happens like previous managers hell get 100% backing from me ..... Like I've said previously i can take being beat by a better team like we were at home by Wigan who were clearly the better side on the day, what I can't accept is being beat like at Barnsley where a poor, poor side just wanted it more? There's no excuse for a pro footballer not showing desire.


  18. #17

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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    The target for any club, any season, should be to finish as high up the league as possible, playing the best football they can manage. I think that Stuart Pearce's methods will be more about presenting the players with a style of play, and working towards that, rather than "this week's opposition will play like this, so.....". The latter method (sorry Billy fans) is more of a short term fix, but (in my opinion) has a fairly major long term down side, when things go wrong, or when the manager goes, the team seem to forget how to play football. Perhaps it's just that they no longer have step by step instructions, and actually have to think for themselves for a change.

    Interestingly, apart from Vaughan, none of the out of contract players are likely to upset fans, if they leave; this makes a major change from the last few seasons.

    I predict a slow start, with improvements over the season. I am more confident that the improvements will stick though.


  19. #18
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    I always expect our fans to want to be promoted every season
    but I worry how easily Fawaz altered the plan from 5 to 1 year. Was it about money, FFP or just too carried away. Hope Grandpappy ain't about to pull the plug on him now it hasn't worked out.


  20. #19
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-Inge of Fudge View Post
    Excellent posts Sedge & Ravi, pretty much my view on things too.

    Has any manager ever actually done it? I know managers have taken sides up in their 1st season, but often in a few years of relegation from the Prem, or on the back of lots of stability. Not after over a decade out the Prem & with constant change

    I think whoever takes over now faces a massive task to get us promoted at the 1st attempt. Not impossible, but it would be a heck of a feat.



    What?

    Let's try again. In your opinion is it or isn't it realistic for us to be demanding promotion from Pearce, or any other future manager in the first season?

    Backing can't be deemed as the be all and end all - look at Man City in their first season. Some things just need time.

    Also, how much of that backing is negated & undone by "over-backing" managers with players they don't want or need, and who's attitude doesn't fit in with the squad? It's alright saying a manager may spend 1m on a player that he's been backed, but then if the owner buys a 1.5m player who makes the manager's buys pissed off his backing has been undone hasn't it?
    Would it be simpler if we just answered what you wanted us to so you can spin it to "Billy Davies was expected to get promotion, why isn't Pearce?" as that is exactly where you want this thread to be heading?

    Man City were not getting promotion out of the championship. The gap they had to make up between UEFA Cup places and PL Champions is obviously a lot bigger than promotion or not from the Championship (potentially a difference of 6th v 7th). What a strange argument!

    But to answer your question then no we shouldn't be "demanding" promotion from Pearce - I certainly wont. In the same way I didn't for SOD.

    I'm not even sure I "demanded" it from Davies. If I was demanding anything it was for him to not act like an absolute bellend and dragging the name of Forest publically through the mud. Something he failed in obviously, which wasn't unnoticed by our chairman who rightly sacked him.

    I'd also like us not to lose 5-0 to Derby next season too - something I am pretty sure we wont under Pearce


  21. #20

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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    Quote Originally Posted by McKenzie View Post
    I'm not even sure I "demanded" it from Davies. If I was demanding anything it was for him to not act like an absolute bellend.
    It's a sad state of affairs, when there are those of us that have such high ambitions, that the main thing we demand is a manager who doesn't act like an absolute bellend.

    Perhaps if we applied the same high ideals to our politicians, the world might be a better place.


  22. #21

    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    Quote Originally Posted by McKenzie View Post
    Would it be simpler if we just answered what you wanted us to so you can spin it to "Billy Davies was expected to get promotion, why isn't Pearce?" as that is exactly where you want this thread to be heading?

    Man City were not getting promotion out of the championship. The gap they had to make up between UEFA Cup places and PL Champions is obviously a lot bigger than promotion or not from the Championship (potentially a difference of 6th v 7th). What a strange argument!

    But to answer your question then no we shouldn't be "demanding" promotion from Pearce - I certainly wont. In the same way I didn't for SOD.

    I'm not even sure I "demanded" it from Davies. If I was demanding anything it was for him to not act like an absolute bellend and dragging the name of Forest publically through the mud. Something he failed in obviously, which wasn't unnoticed by our chairman who rightly sacked him.

    I'd also like us not to lose 5-0 to Derby next season too - something I am pretty sure we wont under Pearce
    This has got naff all to do with Billy and you're obsession with him is worrying. I'm looking at what has happned the past 2 seasons and asking if what Fawaz & fans were expecting has EVER been achieved, and whether it's a realistic expectation for future managers. You need to stop obsessing over Billy and trying to turn everything into a Billy debate. If you wanna stop hearing about him then stop talking about him. Nowhere in this thread have I even mentioned him until you did. This is why folk like you are suckered in buy media spin and BS - because you are focussed on creating your own truth out of something which doesn't even exist. This thread was created to look at an expectation, nothing to do with a manager, yet you find it in your head somehow to focus on something we're not even focussing on.

    My point about City isn't strange at all, it's only strange if you can't grasp a very simple concept of it taking time to achieve goals despite large backing. The objective is irrelevant, it's the principle. can anyone else not understand my point?

    It's good to hear though that you have learned from your mistakes won't be setting a standard which you have set previously. Pearce, or whoever, may stand a chance now.

    Also, has anyone ever acheieved promotion in thier 1st season in a side which has been out of the Prem for longer than 10 years?



    Quote Originally Posted by UndisclosedFee View Post
    It's a sad state of affairs, when there are those of us that have such high ambitions, that the main thing we demand is a manager who doesn't act like an absolute bellend.

    Perhaps if we applied the same high ideals to our politicians, the world might be a better place.
    Dead on actually. "Success is everything but do it nicely and perfectly" It's like hearing your fat, bald mates down the pub say how they'd turn their nose up at Kirsten Dunst coz she's a bit flat chested and not quite as sparkling as a few others. Do me a favour. Perspective is needed.

    Last edited by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery; 14-04-14 at 07:54.

  23. #22
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    We are not a million miles away as it is, so to 'hope' for Promotion next season is fine.

    However, to expect it is nonsense, especially with a new manager but no team in this league should 'expect' to go up, it's too unpredictable.


  24. #23
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    Fawaz is expecting promotion. He may not publicly say it, but clearly it is what he wants. He mentioned after the sacking of Billy of his surprise that a team like this, with all the money invested in it, should be top and not be lingering outside the playoff spots. The money is in the Premier League and Fawaz is desperate to get there, even though he may say different.


  25. #24
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    I know they aren't up yet but NOBODY thought Burnley would get promoted, not even Burnley fans!
    ANYBODY can get promoted to the Prem from this league, regardless of if your name is Nottingham Forest.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: Promotion in The 1st Season

    Quote Originally Posted by sedgred View Post
    No, no and a thousand times No.

    Fawaz, put undue pressure on both Davies and the other unmentionable manager, when he sacked SOD because he wanted promotion. The fans reacted to this with a huge leap in expectations.

    This growth period wants to be cool and under the radar, no pressure, lets learn to play how SP wants and take it from there.
    I agree with all of the above.
    Let Psycho build in peace.


 

 

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