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Thread: Time to test the youth squad..?

      
  1. #1
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    Default Time to test the youth squad..?

    Another season draws to a close.
    We know that the first eleven are fairly decent,except maybe in the striking department.
    We also know that the second string seem incapable of achieving a decent league position.
    Do you think now is an opportunity to play more of the younger players on our books.lets face it they wouldnt be under any pressure,at least not from real supporters.
    I suggest this because Stewart and his future staff will be better placed to evaluate the entire playing staff at the club.
    It is pretty obvious judging over the season that most of the squad arent up for a real push,so we should be concentrating on building from the bottom tier.
    You never know we might have another seriously bad season with injuries again,would be nice to have players banging down the mgrs door to get the golden ticket on match days.
    Just my opinion...


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    I can tell you right now that Ben Osborn and Jack Blake are the best in our U21s squad, as reflected by their involvement recently. Blake should be ahead of Greening.

    We don't really have much quality in defence, although Joe Worrall looks promising. Nowhere near ready yet though.

    Up front Tyler Walker is the best we've got, but I wouldn't throw him in just yet.

    Oliver Burke looks a real prospect. One of the fastest players at the club as a whole, marauding winger.

    Gnahore looks sharp.

    McDonagh has got a few goals for the U18s recently. Very much in the Adam Newbold mould if anyone remembers him, does a lot of hard graft.

    We've got a lot of U18s/U17s in our U21s squad, and I'd say they're not quite ready. But there are some ones to watch.

    Leave it at Osborn and Blake for now. They're the only ones ready to be involved at this current moment.


  4. #3
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    Default

    Fenton looked good when I seen him in pre-season


  5. #4
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Certainly need to bring them through although its important they are bedded in gradually and alongside the seniors like Hobbs, Landsbury, Reid and co.

    Thought Osborn had a decent game today and got more comfortable as the game went on.


  6. #5

    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    I've known Oliver Burke since he played mini-soccer, and he looks the real deal. Think he'll be pressing for a place soon.


  7. #6
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Quote Originally Posted by PierrePierrePierre View Post
    I've known Oliver Burke since he played mini-soccer, and he looks the real deal. Think he'll be pressing for a place soon.

    Glad someone else knows him.

    Raw pace, hasn't he. Couple that with his explosiveness on the ball and it makes him potentially lethal.

    If he progresses like he should he'll be very, very good in the future. Only 16 I think.


  8. #7
    bullittboy
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    So you've given up already?
    There's still 18 points up for grabs.
    Wigan and Reading have far worse run ins than we do.
    Lets wrap because of some bad results.
    No, lets play the first squad players.
    With our fans, they would crucify the younger players anyway.
    Need Reid and Vaughan back, suddenly our options look far brighter.


  9. #8
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    What happened with Stephem McLaughlin?.Havent heard much since he signed..


  10. #9
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Baxter View Post
    What happened with Stephem McLaughlin?.Havent heard much since he signed..

    From what I've seen he looks really affected by the injuries he got.

    Just looks like a normal, run-of-the-mill Non-League winger, hope he proves me wrong.


  11. #10

    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    He was at school with my lad, and they played together for a while before he moved up the tree. If he reaches anything like his potential, he'll be a good player indeed, he was the best youth player I've seen by a country mile.


  12. #11
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDudeII View Post
    Fenton looked good when I seen him in pre-season
    He'd be good.

    Not that I've seen him, but the opportunity to shout Jesus Christ, Fenton is not one to pass up.


  13. #12
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Baxter View Post
    What happened with Stephem McLaughlin?.Havent heard much since he signed..
    I suggest you have a look back at the Forest substitutes' bench at Ipswich.

    Who is "Stewart" by the way?

    Last edited by Otis Redd'un; 05-04-14 at 22:31.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    If Osbourne is the best at the moment, we shouldn't blood anymore just yet.


  15. #14
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    It would be lovely if we could start writing his name as he does 'Osborn'


  16. #15
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Apparently there isn't a lot down there right now that could make the step-up.


  17. #16
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest ash View Post
    It would be lovely if we could start writing his name as he does 'Osborn'
    I think you'll find it's Ozborne


  18. #17
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Quote Originally Posted by bullittboy View Post
    So you've given up already?
    There's still 18 points up for grabs.
    Wigan and Reading have far worse run ins than we do.
    Lets wrap because of some bad results.
    No, lets play the first squad players.
    With our fans, they would crucify the younger players anyway.
    Need Reid and Vaughan back, suddenly our options look far brighter.
    Its a complete myth that our fans get on the back of our youngsters, if anything its completely the opposite..


  19. #18
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Quote Originally Posted by PierrePierrePierre View Post
    He was at school with my lad, and they played together for a while before he moved up the tree. If he reaches anything like his potential, he'll be a good player indeed, he was the best youth player I've seen by a country mile.
    Don't take this personal, but that's what everyone thinks when they see an academy lad playing at local/school level. Because they are that much better than so-called 'average' children playing.

    I went to school with and played alongside lads who were class, couple played for Wolves, two for Port Vale, one for Forest and another for Derby, and they were all miles better than anything we played against and would often win games single handedly. Everyone thought each of them were destined to make-it.

    One plays in the Central Mids, in the same league as Clifton. One plays for a reserve side in the same league, one plays only on a Sunday now, another plays rugby, one is at Mansfield, but out on loan I think, and the one who was the very, very best, the type of kid who we used to give the ball to, and he'd score at will, plays for Motherwell.

    I suppose my point is, that when you see them alongside kids who they are a lot better than, they all look like they're going to be something special. More often than not, it's unfortunately not the case.


  20. #19
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Once a season is mathematically over I've no problem with dropping any mediocre first-teamer in place of an emerging player. I don't believe in the 'too soon' thing if it's a few games, and if playing in a side like ours is going to, as some say, 'ruin' a young player mentally, then let's get them ruined and out of the door before we waste any more money on 'em.

    If first team football is that different to the <21 game, then a: why do we send them out for first team experience at lower-league clubs where they'll learn hoofball rather than using opportunities to teach them a modicum of craft here and b: how do we know reserve football isn't holding the development of certain players back unless we have some frame of reference from first-team action?

    Quite apart from anything else, a couple of capable showings in the first team should be enough to get a player like this a loan to an upper L1 or lower Champ side next season, rather than a conference or L2 side.

    I'll take the judgement of even the worst Forest manager over my own blind optimism around any given young prospect, but talking in principal, when there's nothing to lose but the game at hand, youth should have a chance.

    That time should be here round about next weekend, the way we're going. Whoever our best young striker is, they should be on the bench over any striker at the club who is out of contract in the summer.


  21. #20
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Quote Originally Posted by bgd View Post
    Don't take this personal, but that's what everyone thinks when they see an academy lad playing at local/school level. Because they are that much better than so-called 'average' children playing.

    I went to school with and played alongside lads who were class, couple played for Wolves, two for Port Vale, one for Forest and another for Derby, and they were all miles better than anything we played against and would often win games single handedly. Everyone thought each of them were destined to make-it.

    One plays in the Central Mids, in the same league as Clifton. One plays for a reserve side in the same league, one plays only on a Sunday now, another plays rugby, one is at Mansfield, but out on loan I think, and the one who was the very, very best, the type of kid who we used to give the ball to, and he'd score at will, plays for Motherwell.

    I suppose my point is, that when you see them alongside kids who they are a lot better than, they all look like they're going to be something special. More often than not, it's unfortunately not the case.
    I've understood what you're saying to be true for some time, but I've never quite figured out what makes the difference - how does one go on to be Jamie Paterson and the next a benchwarmer for Lincoln United?


  22. #21
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Fail View Post
    I've understood what you're saying to be true for some time, but I've never quite figured out what makes the difference - how does one go on to be Jamie Paterson and the next a benchwarmer for Lincoln United?
    I can only really speak from personal experience of the people I've met, myself and speculation...

    But I think a huge part of it is mentality.

    The one who now plays for Motherwell always knew he was the best. He wasn't a dick or anything, but he had complete confidence in himself, and if he missed a chance of made a mistake, he'd shrug it off, almost like it wasn't even his fault.

    One of the most talented lads I played with, is the lad who played for Forest, but he was quite a self conscious person, and extremely polite, and he got an injury once, and then just seemingly decided that was going to hold him back forever, he got released and just put weight on and accepted that it wasn't meant to happen.

    I really think mentality, believing you're good enough, even if things get difficult, goes a long way between showing the difference in players with talent who do and don't make it.

    There's obviously kids who don't dedicate their time properly, and take it for granted who don't make it.

    But for me, mentality, confidence and self-belief is a huge reason in the difference between the lads who get released and end up semi-pro at best, and the ones with similar talent who make a career.


  23. #22
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Thanks.

    I suppose it follows then that we lose some of the more talented players and retain some of the relatively less talented, more confident ones. I wonder if it's the same in countries which have more international success? As a cynic, I have to imagine there's something in the domestic game which could be changed to redress the issue. Most teenagers have a talent. Most teenagers have no confidence, especially the ones who seem confident. Seems a shame that confidence can be such a career-decider before an age where anyone could reasonably be expected to have any.


  24. #23

    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Agreed that mentality is a huge part of it. It often helps when the player involved has family background in the game, which I think is the case here. Also, there is a huge difference between playing in front of mums and dads and stepping out in front of a crowd of 20k +. Only time will tell, I guess.


  25. #24
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    Seems to me that at Forest we have an accademy that is a self funding business,rather than a training accademy designed to ease players into the first team.
    For instance a first team mgr/coach decides the club style,and therefore needs the accademy to produce players that can slot straight into the first team,already versed in required tactics /work ethic etc.
    You only have to look at clubs like Everton,who as I type are playing three players under nineteen.they are what we would describe as a proper football club,and something we used to be and should aim for again.
    Maybe the owner needs to decide our football style,ie longball/keepball/counter etc.and then appoint mgrs/coaches to suit that philosophy.Basic stuff I know but something is missing atm, and must be costing us dearly.
    Anyone know if we have a trademark style running through the club, or are we just taking anyone that might make us some money?


  26. #25
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    Default Re: Time to test the youth squad..?

    I agree Jim, it seems to me that we are obsessed with producing players for the spine of the team whilst completely neglecting natural wide players. A couple of examples that spring to mind are Ben Osborn who seemed to get pushed more and more centrally instead of developing as a winger. Josh Thomas who I thought was a decent winger was let go, could be coincidence but he had a couple of poorer games when moved inside. I personally think that Willy Gnahore is better on the right than as a striker.

    Players in the spine of a team attract a higher value in general obviously there are exceptions and I believe that this is why we obsess with these positions.


 

 

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