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Thread: New Hillsborough Inquest

      
  1. #826
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Just gerra jury of 12 scousers, job done.


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  3. #827
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    They'll just keep going to retrial until such time as they get the result that is wanted.

    Even if he's found innocent there'll be an upheld appeal on a technicality so they can do it again.

    He may or may not be guilty, and there are many on here who have made it quite clear that they don't think it is as cut and dried as some would have you believe, but sure as anything he's a sacrificial lamb to satisfy the vengeance lust of a city.
    A bit like Brexit isn't it, keep going until you get the result you want like a load of whinging Scousers.

    I'd forgotten I had a bit of an argument with two Liverpool fans at the weekend.
    They were going on about the injustice of it all, I tried to reason with them that it wasn't any one person or authorities fault, they told me I was wrong. So I asked them if they were there, soon shut up when I told them I was, and the year before.
    Then they started banging the best fans in the world drum, salt of the earth, wouldn't hurt anyone. So I asked them what happened at Heysal. They left shortly after that.


  4. #828
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    A conversation a few of us have had too, I daresay.


  5. #829
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    A conversation a few of us have had too, I daresay.
    Yes, I wasn't being an arsehole about it either, until they started raising their voices and talking as if Forest fans weren't even there and saw nothing.

    Heysal gets conveniently forgotten as well, like it was FAKE NEWS.


  6. #830
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    Yes, I wasn't being an arsehole about it either, until they started raising their voices and talking as if Forest fans weren't even there and saw nothing.

    Heysal gets conveniently forgotten as well, like it was FAKE NEWS.
    And Athens.


  7. #831
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigler View Post
    And Athens.
    What happened in Athens?

    I know there is a catalogue of their bad behaviour but I'm not familiar with that one.


  8. #832
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    What happened in Athens?

    I know there is a catalogue of their bad behaviour but I'm not familiar with that one.
    Those cheeky, lovable, Scousers forcing their way into the stadium without tickets for the European Cup Final against Milan.

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

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  9. #833
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    What happened in Athens?

    I know there is a catalogue of their bad behaviour but I'm not familiar with that one.
    Basically shit loads of Scousers without tickets for the Champions League final rushed the turnstiles and forced their way in.

    Those cheeky scallies.....


  10. #834
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Not that anyone from Liverpool would ever behave like that, of course.

    It was probably Chelsea fans, in disguise.


  11. #835
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    Not that anyone from Liverpool would ever behave like that, of course.

    It was probably Chelsea fans, in disguise.


    They wheeled that one out after Heysal and the media half sucked it up.


  12. #836
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Saw my dad today and told him about the argument with the Liverpool fans. He's on about going to the boozer they were in, this weekend.
    He's 70 with a pacemaker and thinks he's still one of the East Stand Boys

    Love him to bits


  13. #837
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Not guilty.

    Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard

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  14. #838
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    The Scouse won't like that


  15. #839
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley View Post
    Not guilty.

    Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard
    I wonder if the Scousers will now accept that it wasn't his fault?



    (Yes, I know, I was just being sarcy)


  16. #840
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
    The Scouse won't like that
    Pretty sure they'll take it with good grace and even though it's not the result they wanted they'll almost certainly abide by the legal ruling and let it go in a dignified fashion.

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  17. #841
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley View Post
    Pretty sure they'll take it with good grace and even though it's not the result they wanted they'll almost certainly abide by the legal ruling and let it go in a dignified fashion.

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  18. #842
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Its being referred to VAR for confirmation.


  19. #843
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigler View Post
    I wonder if the Scousers will now accept that it wasn't his fault?



    (Yes, I know, I was just being sarcy)



  20. #844

    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Spent £65m on the criminal investigation. Who pays for this?


  21. #845
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    I guess the difference would be between, let's say
    - Was he competent enough to be in charge of a FA Cup semi final when he had never been in charge of a football match before?
    - Did he order opening the gate to avoid the crush at the turnstiles believing the fans would disperse naturally into the stand? Or did he know they would just head straight for the tunnel leading to the already overcrowded central pens?
    - Did he open the gate on purpose knowing that the result would be that a whole load of Liverpool fans would end up dead?

    1 is probably true, 2 is probably more the former than the latter, 3 is probably not true.

    It's clearly fact that the Liverpool fans couldn't get into the ground quickly enough, so to avoid issues on the street and at the gates, he thought the best thing to do was to open the exit gate. What then didn't happen is that the flow of fans into the ground was regulated sufficiently to push them into the outer pens, the middle pens should have been blocked off again, but this comes down to point 1, he was not experienced to see this would happen.

    Nowadays you would expect the game would be postponed for 15-30 mins or whatever to allow the fans in but then they were generally treated like hooligans so the climate was different.

    Yes, it's true that poor policing on the day led to the crush and the deaths, and Duckinfield was in charge of these, so ultimately responsible for the failure. But was the decision taken knowing that people would die as a result, or with the intention of doing so? Probably not, and this is the difference which would make it a manslaughter charge, he clearly didn't forsee it happening nor did he intend for the fans to be killed.

    Probably the right decision, though this still shouldn't be seen as anything other than bad policing, and the subsequent misinformation, covering up and doctoring statements is despicable.


  22. #846
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Supt Roger Marshall, on duty at the turnstiles, requested the large exit gates to be opened to allow people respite. Duckenfield declined, then at 2.52pm Marshall warned that somebody would die if the gates were not opened. Duckenfield then gave the order to open the gates.

    The prosecution alleged that Duckenfield’s failure to identify hazards at the turnstiles, monitor the numbers waiting to come in, relieve the pressures outside, monitor the numbers in the central pens and direct people away from the tunnel and central pens, amounted to gross negligence.

    That difficult mix of fucked if you do fucked if you don't and not having eyes in the back of your head...

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  23. #847
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    Supt Roger Marshall, on duty at the turnstiles, requested the large exit gates to be opened to allow people respite. Duckenfield declined, then at 2.52pm Marshall warned that somebody would die if the gates were not opened. Duckenfield then gave the order to open the gates.

    The prosecution alleged that Duckenfield’s failure to identify hazards at the turnstiles, monitor the numbers waiting to come in, relieve the pressures outside, monitor the numbers in the central pens and direct people away from the tunnel and central pens, amounted to gross negligence.

    That difficult mix of fucked if you do fucked if you don't and not having eyes in the back of your head...
    Exactly. It had got to the stage where there would either be an issue at the gate or in the stand.

    The key failure was the failure to redirect fans away from the tunnel and to the outside pens, a fact which was immediately visible from looking out the control centre windows as it was next to the stand in question, which caused the issue.

    Incompetence, yes. Negligence, yes. Manslaughter, probably not.


  24. #848
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Statto View Post
    I guess the difference would be between, let's say
    - Was he competent enough to be in charge of a FA Cup semi final when he had never been in charge of a football match before?
    - Did he order opening the gate to avoid the crush at the turnstiles believing the fans would disperse naturally into the stand? Or did he know they would just head straight for the tunnel leading to the already overcrowded central pens?
    - Did he open the gate on purpose knowing that the result would be that a whole load of Liverpool fans would end up dead?

    1 is probably true, 2 is probably more the former than the latter, 3 is probably not true.

    It's clearly fact that the Liverpool fans couldn't get into the ground quickly enough, so to avoid issues on the street and at the gates, he thought the best thing to do was to open the exit gate. What then didn't happen is that the flow of fans into the ground was regulated sufficiently to push them into the outer pens, the middle pens should have been blocked off again, but this comes down to point 1, he was not experienced to see this would happen.

    Nowadays you would expect the game would be postponed for 15-30 mins or whatever to allow the fans in but then they were generally treated like hooligans so the climate was different.

    Yes, it's true that poor policing on the day led to the crush and the deaths, and Duckinfield was in charge of these, so ultimately responsible for the failure. But was the decision taken knowing that people would die as a result, or with the intention of doing so? Probably not, and this is the difference which would make it a manslaughter charge, he clearly didn't forsee it happening nor did he intend for the fans to be killed.

    Probably the right decision, though this still shouldn't be seen as anything other than bad policing, and the subsequent misinformation, covering up and doctoring statements is despicable.
    Yes but some of the behavior outside was diabolical as well and this was all dealt with in the Taylor Report. The so called Independent years later report yes found more evidence of a cover up but totally ignored really clear evidence of the behavior of Liverpool supporters that day. More of a witch hunt than justice since Burnham intervened in my opinion.


  25. #849
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Quote Originally Posted by mattw View Post
    Yes but some of the behavior outside was diabolical as well and this was all dealt with in the Taylor Report. The so called Independent years later report yes found more evidence of a cover up but totally ignored really clear evidence of the behavior of Liverpool supporters that day. More of a witch hunt than justice since Burnham intervened in my opinion.
    It's just people who weren't there talking about stuff they only have second hand knowledge of.
    Let them be, you needed to be there.

    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  26. #850
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    Default Re: New Hillsborough Inquest

    Fuck um , Scummy club and Fans , Liverpool fans had no influence in the crush ?
    Bullshit .
    There so called fans around that time had a massive scummy element.
    I am not saying it was all there fans fault but they certainly contributed to it.

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