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Thread: HS 2

  1. #1
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    Default HS 2

    Not a bit of track laid and proving to be controversial.

    I obviously understand the concerns of people who the building and route of the track are going disturb.

    What I cannot grasp is the claims that it will help close the North South divide, whilst bringing untold riches to all and sundry, why because business travellers can get to London quicker from various major cities in the north of the country !

    If the business oppotunities are available, why wait until we have a high speed train line to take advantage of them ?


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: HS 2

    I dont know enough about the whole economic benefits, but living in Wales you can see places that have big A roads and Motorways have more wealth, for example Aberystwyth that suffers alot because they lack a good road system they miss out on a variety of shops, whereas places along the A55 like Bangor and Caernarfon benefit from being connected. A train is different but if it only took half an hour from Nottingham to London then you would see a lot more business but I doubt its going to be that quick. We have to be careful of NIMBYSM, 'Not In My Back Yard ism' people will also protest new building projects and its killing the strive for more renewable energy resources.


  4. #3
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    Default Re: HS 2

    Its no where near my back yard but you can tell its gonna be a flop. Cant imagine it ll be cheap to use for a start.


  5. #4
    winnits
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    Default Re: HS 2

    It gets to London 20 minutes faster from Toton, which given the Nottingham City Council vendetta against getting anywhere quickly will probably be 30 minutes away from Nottingham. Great.


  6. #5
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    Default Re: HS 2

    Quote Originally Posted by winnits View Post
    It gets to London 20 minutes faster from Toton, which given the Nottingham City Council vendetta against getting anywhere quickly will probably be 30 minutes away from Nottingham. Great.
    This is my problem with HS2.

    You'll save apparently 20 minutes but it will take 20 minutes at least to get from the current station - or the centre or town - to Toton sidings where the new station is intended to be built.

    Makes it a bit pointless. And the cost will be significantly higher than the current East Midlands Trains service to St. Pancras!

    Don't get me wrong - high speed trains, when done right, are brilliant.

    I've used the TGV in France and they are superb, and the "grand-daddy" of them all, the Shinkansen in Japan, which again are fantastic.

    The French network works because the trains go where people need to get to, and - crucially - the stations are centrally located to the cities they serve.

    For me, all HS2 is going to do is consolidate even more, the "pull" of London and the south-east, which is exactly the opposite of what the electorate are being told will happen!

    If there is really £50bn sloshing around to spend on the railways, why not use it to reverse the criminal under-investment of the last two decades, and perhaps put right some of the mistakes made by the Beeching review in the 1960s?

    „The revolution will inevitably awaken in the British working class the deepest passions which have been diverted along artificial channels with the aid of football.“

  7. #6
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    Default Re: HS 2

    The best idea I've seen is to take the HS2 money and rather then spend it on connecting the North to London, use it to connect the major cities of the North to each other with a high speed rail network. Something along the Liverpool - Manchester - Leeds - Hull corridor for example. Currently all of our rail network focusses on getting to London, try and travel anywhere on a line that doesn't go to London and it takes forever.


  8. #7
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    Default Re: HS 2

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscl View Post
    If there is really £50bn sloshing around to spend on the railways, why not use it to reverse the criminal under-investment of the last two decades, and perhaps put right some of the mistakes made by the Beeching review in the 1960s?
    Stop being so bloody sensible!

    This is about politics. It's got nothing to do with what's best for the country...

    Quote Originally Posted by DanR View Post
    The best idea I've seen is to take the HS2 money and rather then spend it on connecting the North to London, use it to connect the major cities of the North to each other with a high speed rail network. Something along the Liverpool - Manchester - Leeds - Hull corridor for example. Currently all of our rail network focusses on getting to London, try and travel anywhere on a line that doesn't go to London and it takes forever.
    You as well.


  9. #8
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    Default Re: HS 2

    If it goes ahead it will take a damn site longer to get to the station than 20 minutes from town. In the area the station's going to be will be 500 more houses and a the new park n ride tram station. The A52 and Toton lane are liable to gridlock, from Bardills to bramcote island, now, let alone more people using the one way in out of the tram station or the extra cars going in out of the new estate. It will be a mess without adding a new super duper HS2 station.


  10. #9
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    Default Re: HS 2

    Its been used before but



    HS2 = white elephant. £50Bn (and the rest)would be better spent on the rest of the rail network, improving it for every one, not just London commuters.


  11. #10
    winnits
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    That's the tram video!


  12. #11
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    Default

    I think a greater solution would be to move the financial hub of the country out of the capital. Create a better Second City than Birmingham.

    Imagine if we attracted a few banks to open up here. Airport on the doorstep with quick links to Europe, minutes from the M1 and plenty of space to build thriving infrastructure.

    I honest believe Canary Wharf could basically be coerced out of London given the right incentives.

    Talk to me, Goose.

  13. #12
    winnits
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    Default Re: HS 2

    Can you imagine Nottingham City Council doing that?

    "Yeah, so, you have to pay a big fuck off tax for any car parks, and any ridiculous and pointless transport links we decide to create we'll probably sting you for those too..."


  14. #13
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    Default Re: HS 2

    Lets face it, this countries advancement with train travel is embarrassing.
    It's taken 25 years just to get cross rail for fucks sake.


  15. #14
    winnits
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    Default Re: HS 2

    But even when they do invest it's done for the wrong reasons. It's silly.

    The benefits of HS2 are negligible in a country this size given average rail journey lengths.


  16. #15

    Default Re: HS 2

    It'd be pretty sweet if I could get home in 50 minutes, though.


  17. #16
    winnits
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    Default Re: HS 2

    Having spent half an hour to get to Toton...


  18. #17
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    Default Re: HS 2

    The real winners in this could be the people who live just a few miles from Toton. Not so near that it's literally on the doorstep, but just a few minutes away on the tram. 20 years from now places like Chilwell for example could become very desirable to some poncy London stock broker, possibly pushing the value of family homes in the area up considerably.


  19. #18
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    Default Re: HS 2

    I am "on it's door step" I'm not against it because it is, hell it'll probably keep me in work, I just think it's a massive waste of time and money. Spend the money on something worthwhile like keeping the NHS or improving schools, fuck it stop cutting FE funding so I can keep my job.


  20. #19
    Monk De Wally De Honk
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    Just been looking at the map, I thought the principle idea of HS2 is to links London, Birmingham and Manchester with a high speed line as there was no way the current line could be further upgraded.

    Why the hell is it swinging right to go to notts?


  21. #20
    winnits
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    Default Re: HS 2

    It splits and goes oop to Notts/Yaarkshire.

    It's completely pointless.


  22. #21
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    Default Re: HS 2

    Concorde promised substanially quicker journeys to the USA for business men and the rich & famous.

    How did that turn out? Only two airlines bought the planes and then only with massive government susidies. Now no airlines operate supersonic airliners.

    Is the business need for super rapid transport still there?


  23. #22
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    Default HS 2

    The initial branch - that goes to Birmingham and Manchester - is to take load off of the West Coast Mainline, which is allegedly running over capacity (if that is even possible) although the busiest sections are, as you may have guessed, the last 30 or so miles into London (prime commuter territory).

    The second phase will swing up to the East Midlands and Yorkshire.

    However the usual nimbys have pledged to disrupt the planning process, especially where the projected line passes through the Chiltern Hills so if/when it gets built is anyone's guess.

    But as mentioned above; for Nottingham, it's almost pointless. What time you will save on the journey will be lost then getting back into the city from Toton, unless of course you live that way!

    (Might do good for the house prices in the Toton area though).

    The problem with HS2 is the focus is wrong - yet again, it's all about the South East, whatever the Government say.

    Successive governments have allowed the infrastructure in the rest of the country to whither at the benefit of London and the south east, so much so that the infrastructure - both rail and road - is just not fit for for purpose, and that ends up with local, "pet projects" like the City Councils' useless Tram system - being built to show that government is "plugging the gap"!

    Nottingham is wasting millions on an un-needed Tram, to compliment an already excellent public transport network, but the arterial roads into the City are still clogged with traffic every day. It's taken 15 years to get the A453 widened, but the A52 is still a car park at peak times and there's similar problems on the A610.

    But then, the City Council, safe in their majority, just seem to want to continue their war on anyone who drives a car (and that's a whole new topic!)

    Last edited by chriscl; 10-09-13 at 14:16.

  24. #23
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    Default Re: HS 2

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscl View Post

    The problem with HS2 is the focus is wrong - yet again, it's all about the South East, whatever the Government say.
    Exactly - it will take 50 minutes to travel to London. So what. It will still take 1 hour to travel to Sheffield. 40 minutes to travel to Leicester. 2 hours to travel to Manchester. Now those are places that local business could use quicker travel times and better transport links to.


  25. #24

    Default Re: HS 2

    There was a piece in Private Eye's train-related column the other week about how a government report had criticised the train companies for over-crowding on their lines... even though it's the government themselves who set the quota of how many trains the operators can have.

    A year ago the HS2 plan seemed okay to me... a lot of jobs created and regional benefits. Since then the cost has seemingly doubled and the benefits just don't seem worth it any more. Spend the money on building more trains (in Britain!) and passengers might just find their journeys are still the same length but they are saving those 20 minutes a day in avoided delays/trains they can't physically fit on.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: HS 2

    You's are all idiots.
    By the time it's built there'll be an electromagnetic monorail to get you from Toton to Nottingham in 10 minutes.

    You've got no vision. We're serious about High Speed trains, are you?


 

 

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