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Thread: Central defence

      
  1. #1

    Default Central defence

    Afternoon folks, am writing an article on our central defenders, I was wondering what other fans thought of them. Which of the following would be good enough for promotion next season:

    Danny Collins
    Greg Halford
    Elliott Ward

    What is it you like about them, or in which areas are they lacking? For me, I think they're all very different types of defender and in an odd kind of way their deficiencies and skills compliment each other quite well - for example Ward's strength and skills in the air go quite well with Collins, who is a bit quicker, cleverer and better positionally.

    I think all three did a decent job last season in difficult circumstances, am I being generous?

    Also, assuming we're going for promotion, would you like to see Lascelles get a chance to establish himself this season?

    Cheers for any help guys.


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Central defence

    Think you might have a few people disagreeing with you on that, mainly anything positive about Collins especially if your saying he's got a bit of pace in him.


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    Default Re: Central defence

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Boffin View Post
    for example Ward's strength and skills in the air go quite well with Collins, who is a bit quicker, cleverer and better positionally.
    Ward's strongest attribute is his positional awareness and his intelligence, which makes up for his lack of pace. He's miles ahead of Collins in those two areas. Just look at the Collins 'drift' for the Derby goal at Pride Park.


  5. #4

    Default Re: Central defence

    Funnily enough I've just done a graphic highlighting that Pride Park goal haha. for me though, I didn't see that initially as a positional error (or what I'd call one), it was a failure to recognise which of the Derby lad's runs was the danger as he got dragged out of position. I think when things get complicated all of our defenders get a bit confused. This goal was a big error from Collins in particular though. Got done.


  6. #5
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    Default Re: Central defence

    I think all three are good enough for a top 6 Championship team. Ward is a very good stopper at this level and I hope he's one of this summer's signings. Collins started the season well but his form and confidence seemed to dip as the months progressed. Halford was one of the successes of last season imo - technically very good for a Championship defender, and in particular so calm and unflappable yet seems to have the knack of winding up opposition players. Also his long throw is a good weapon to have when he's deployed as a full back.

    What we need to complement them is someone with good pace and acceleration who can pass a ball. We've never really replaced Wilson.

    As for Lascelles, I'd love to see him get a chance, maybe at right back. Trouble is unless they can make an immediate impact it's difficult to blood young players when you're going for promotion.

    Last edited by Ravi; 20-05-13 at 15:58.
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  7. #6
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    Default Re: Central defence

    I don't pan Collins as much as many but he certainly isn't getting younger.

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    Default Re: Central defence

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    technically very good for a Championship defender
    A bit lacking when compared to Hutch/Jara/Hutton though. Isn't that the level we should be inspiring to if we want to get promoted?


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    Default Re: Central defence

    Quote Originally Posted by tropix View Post
    A bit lacking when compared to Hutch/Jara/Hutton though. Isn't that the level we should be inspiring to if we want to get promoted?
    Hey yeah of course but they are all Premier League quality hence why they were here on loan, plus they are fullbacks not central defenders. When fit Hutch is easily better than any other defender in the Championship, and probably good enough to be playing for a top 5 Prem team. And I'd love us to have both Jara and Hutton here next season. I'd also be quite happy for us to sign someone like Boyata on a SLL to complement what we have.

    Last edited by Ravi; 20-05-13 at 16:29.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Central defence

    Ward is a good solid defender who the fans have grown to. He is strong on the air and his positioning is pretty good, however, he lacks pace and he is a 'slow turner'. Overall though, he is a competent championship defender and I'd be happy if we signed him in the summer.

    Collins is very good at 'last-ditch' tackles and interceptions, however you have to ask the question as to why he gets into those positions in the first place. His ariel ability isn't brilliant but he gets stuck in and challenges (the least you'd expect from any centre half). Again, he isn't blessed with pace and has a knack of making mistakes. Overall, he isn't getting any younger and in my eyes should be just a squad player next season.

    Halford is in my opinion the best of the 3, he is tall, very strong in the air, good with the ball at his feet, versatile, is a big threat from corners and has enough pace to deal with many strikers. However, his positioning is fairly poor at times. Overall though his pros overpower his cons, and he is more than fit to play a key role in a promotion charge next season.


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    Default Re: Central defence

    Collins nowhere near good enough IMO
    Ward - decent. Good on the ball and in the air, chips in with goals. However he lacks pace and a bit to lathargic. Good signing as a squad player but wouldn't be that bothered if he wasn't first choice
    - Halford - one of the best players last season but is a bit to versatile for his own good. He got moved around too much last season so it's difficult to critique his performances too much as the variables changed too much - different centre half pairings / right & left back with different wingers in front of him

    He's got undoubted quality though so should really be asking to be made first choice centre half and get someone to pair with him. Really rate him

    In short. Collins not good enough. Ward decent, Halford excellent.

    I think it's an area we definitely have to strengthen. We need a leader, a Kenny Burns type to organise and die for the cause


  12. #11
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    Default Re: Central defence

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    Hey yeah of course but they are all Premier League quality hence why they were here on loan, plus they are fullbacks not central defenders. When fit Hutch is easily better than any other defender in the Championship, and probably good enough to be playing for a top 5 Prem team. And I'd love us to have both Jara and Hutton here next season. I'd also be quite happy for us to sign someone like Boyata on a SLL to complement what we have.
    How can you tell if Hutch is probably good enough for the top 5 Prem from the handful of games he has been fit enough to play? He has shown flashes of quality on the rare occassion he is fit but possibly over egging his talent in my opinion. All academic if he can't get on the pitch.


  13. #12

    Default Re: Central defence

    Don't really like Collins, and think it's terrible that he's the club captain. Our defence definitely looks more shaky with him in the middle. He's too small for a start, so can't be very good in the air.

    Didn't like Ward at first, but he really improved, and wouldn't mind him coming back.

    Halford is really good in the air and has a lot to his game. I just worry about his discipline! He picks up a lot of yellow cards, mainly through arguing with referees.


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    Default Re: Central defence

    We've got two good young centre backs in Kieran Fenton and Gorman coming through from the youth teams, both have played for England at youth level.


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    Default Re: Central defence

    The quality of a central defence unit is reflected in its ability to shut out teams when in a close match.
    For your review I would suggest a close look at the tense games and an analysis of points lost & won when it was a bit of a battle may not reflect too well on us.
    To my mind we had 3 reliable central defenders that I would like to see retained: Hutchinson Halford & Ward.
    Most would agree Hutchinson has the class to be a Premiership player, but he is not blessed with reliable knees.
    Halford is calm and laid back and I rate him highly - again, I think he could do it in the Premiership.
    The third is Ward who got better over his time with us, but of the 3 I think he would struggle in the Premiership.
    Collin, for me, is too slow, too light, too old and I would struggle to find him a regular spot in the squad, let alone in the starting XI.
    Lascelles looks to be quality - but he is as yet untested at this level..
    If Hutchinson's knees will stand the rigors, and if he is available then we should go for him.
    If not we need a genuine Premiership class centre half to play alongside Halford.


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    Default Re: Central defence

    @FTransferNews: Simeon Jackson, Elliott Ward and Lee Camp will not offered be new deals by Norwich. #NCFC


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    Default Re: Central defence

    Lee Camp ay


  18. #17

    Default Re: Central defence

    Why does it matter if they can play in the Premiership or not? I think we should just worry about whether they can cut it at this level, and
    if we get back to the Premiership then think about who needs replacing! Otherwise, we set our standards too high, and we could end up
    missing out on the right kind of player.

    Last edited by hannahd; 20-05-13 at 19:29.

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    Default Re: Central defence

    Would be sad for Darlow if Camp came back

    Elliot Ward would be useful!


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    Default Re: Central defence

    Wouldn't be surprised if Camp worms his way back in


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    Default Re: Central defence

    Simeon Jackson, sing him up


  22. #21
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    Default Re: Central defence

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    Hey yeah of course but they are all Premier League quality hence why they were here on loan, plus they are fullbacks not central defenders. When fit Hutch is easily better than any other defender in the Championship, and probably good enough to be playing for a top 5 Prem team. And I'd love us to have both Jara and Hutton here next season. I'd also be quite happy for us to sign someone like Boyata on a SLL to complement what we have.
    True. It's probably not fair to compare Halford to those three because they're obviously a step up. He's a good guy to have around, I just don't think that he should be a cornerstone of a promotion chasing back four


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    Default Re: Central defence

    Ward is better positionally and better in the air and generally defensivley than collins. as for the pace issue to say they both lack pace would be an understatement. id personally make Lascelles the main CB along with Halford or a new player (in a dream world id love wes back) with Hutchinson RB with Jara as backup with a new LB, id love Danny Fox from saints.

    Last edited by JJRED95; 20-05-13 at 21:23.

  24. #23
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    Default Re: Central defence

    Our central defence is dreadful. Ward is woeful, never anywhere useful and appears unable to out jump even a dwarf in his own box

    Collins started well but for some reason really struggled for most of the season.

    Halford has looked really good at times, and was in my opinion one of the real surprises of last seasons. That said, for me he looked much better at right back than centre back, and had a knack for giving away silly free kicks.


    I would like to see 2 strong centre halfs come in, in the summer. Or give Lascelles a chance to prove himself.

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  25. #24
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    Default Re: Central defence

    Collins is piss poor, him and Camp at fault for the goal at Ipswich is one that springs to mind straight away.... he just fills me with no confidence at all at the back and the way he chews gum when he plays.....just doesnt look switched on when his mouths going round like a washing machine.


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    Default Re: Central defence

    Quote Originally Posted by incapable hulk View Post
    Our central defence is dreadful...
    Woe is ward


 

 

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