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Thread: Problems at Forest are nothing new

      
  1. #1

    Post Problems at Forest are nothing new

    I came across this in an old Nottingham Evening Post March 25th 1890, and thought that it might be reassuring to anyone worried about our current situation

    As the Forest have also set about arranging a similar kind of eleven to Notts. for next season, some of the latter's committee are more anxious than ever to strengthen the team considerably. It is complained that the business is so secretly conducted. Doubtless we should all like to know what is going on, but the best interests of the club in such delicate work as strengthening the team won't stand such publicity, and there's an end of it. Divided councels are disatrous and we hope to see complete harmony restored and a spirited policy carried out firmly.

    If the supporters of Notts. (sic) Forest have not lost all heart they must be the staunchest folk who ever followed the fortunes of a fallen club.We suppose that they are holding on like those poor people who are wrecked, and cling to the masts and the rigging in the hope of ultimate rescue from their fat. The powers that be have, we are told, already not only devised and sketched the plan of a new vessel, but she is already on the stocks, and a diligent search is being made for a crew to man her. To speak plainly, there should not be much difficulty in engaing a better set of men than have attempted to guide the Red ship of late.

    To drop metaphor, it is not long since the Foresters were beaten 12 to 0 by Small Heath
    (later to become Birmingham City)



    The problem at the time for the team was that the players were a mix of pro and amateurs and some of the amateurs failed to turn up sometimes due to other commitments.

    This is of course nothing like our problem now that we have highly paid professionals playing for us who turn out for us week in week out, in body at least, but does show that we have had club threatening problems going back a long way in our history. We overcame problems before and we can again.

    As they used to say on Thunderbirds FAB (Fawaz & Billy)


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    The committee when we had one didn't exactly cover themselves in glory. Many of our woes can be attributed to them:
    - not building for the future when we were successful.
    - the bungled sale to Scholar & his crooked band.


  4. #3
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    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Baker's Dog View Post
    The committee when we had one didn't exactly cover themselves in glory. Many of our woes can be attributed to them:
    - not building for the future when we were successful.
    - the bungled sale to Scholar & his crooked band.
    They appointed Brian Clough and Peter Taylor hence covering themselves in glory.


  5. #4
    Stuart FUCJIN Pearce
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    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Aye, it's nowt new, and I dare say the information explosion that is the internet is what makes problems seem so dramatic and out of proportion at times.


  6. #5

    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by Anatoli View Post
    They appointed Brian Clough and Peter Taylor hence covering themselves in glory.
    The committee of 1890 appointed Brian Clough? Now that's foresight!

    ^this

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-Inge of Fudge View Post
    Aye, it's nowt new, and I dare say the information explosion that is the internet is what makes problems seem so dramatic and out of proportion at times.
    I think you have hit the nail right on the head about our need for instant gratification in the internet age combined with our inbuilt need for drama out of the absolute mundane. If we ever get anything resembling just mild drama we go into instant meltdown as we are unable to cope. And it seems that it is not just football that befalls this double whammy syndrome.


  8. #7
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    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    People are able to express themselves immediately now - which has its' pitfalls.

    Before with football if you were pissed off you'd chunter to your mates in the pub, calm down a bit - or you'd maybe sit and write something down to a fanzine editor. So you'd consider what you said, send it, the editor would then either chuck it away if it was nonsense, edit it further for clarity or print it if it was okay.

    Now it's different - in many ways I love the way people can instantly input into the mix, but we all need to remember (self included) to self-moderate a little bit before hitting the ol' post button.


    One Ring to rule them all, one ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.

  9. #8

    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    The committee of 1890 appointed Brian Clough? Now that's foresight!
    Didn't you know, Dr. Emmet Brown was a honoury member of the committee and left a letter to be opened on January 4th 1975. It read..

    "Dear Sirs,

    Don't ask how I know this given when this letter is written, but you have just sacked your manager Allan Brown. I know that Brian Clough didn't have a good spell at Leeds, and he will be a pain at times, but you must make him the manager of the Nottingham Forest team. He will bring good times to Nottingham, trust me.

    Back me for your future.

    Dr Emmet Brown

    (No relation to Allan by the way.)


    There was some disbelief when they opened the letter, but they did it anyway, and the rest is history.


  10. #9

    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Great Scott!


  11. #10
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    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Great Scott!
    Which one? BD or AMC?!


  12. #11

    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Red Till Dead View Post
    I came across this in an old Nottingham Evening Post March 25th 1890
    By the way, where do you come across copies of the Evening Post from the Victorian era? Presumably it wasn't wrapped around your fish supper...


  13. #12
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    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Under clough, there was loads of cloak and dagger stuff going on behind the scenes due to the way the club was run from an administrative perspective.

    Then we had the whole buy-out of the club, the Sandy Anderson shenanigans, the Grant Bovey video with Anthea Turner, Irving Scholar/Nigel Wray thing and eventually the buy-out by Doughty

    Then we had a relatively stable time, marred by bad decisions (not investing at the right times, promising funds then freezing them often leaving the manager in the cold, PR gaffes etc). All culminating with the McClaren short tenure, recruitment of Steve Cotterill and the announcement that he wasn't putting another penny into the club.

    Then the circus after Doughtys death, with the threat of administration looming and the Al-Hasawis arriving in the nick of time.

    So it is fair to say that the non-playing side of the club has been 'entertaining' for many years.

    The decisions by the current owners do seem extreme but I think they should be judged over a longer period of time. If we need some tough decisions and mistakes to be made now, in order to get the right people in the right jobs and have a period of sustained success then it will be worth it.

    And whatever is happening now is better that what would have happened if no-one had come in to buy us in the summer


  14. #13
    Stuart FUCJIN Pearce
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    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by Shipstones Pye Eater View Post
    I think you have hit the nail right on the head about our need for instant gratification in the internet age combined with our inbuilt need for drama out of the absolute mundane. If we ever get anything resembling just mild drama we go into instant meltdown as we are unable to cope. And it seems that it is not just football that befalls this double whammy syndrome.
    Aye. Maybe it's reflective of society in general, but from my own personal POV there certainly seems to be a lack of backbone overall in modern culture. It really is as if some football fans don't expect their team to ever concede a goal, never mind lose.

    The fact that so many were expecting promotion this season after last year, and such a short pre-season shows a distinct lack of realism IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by winnits View Post
    People are able to express themselves immediately now - which has its' pitfalls.

    Before with football if you were pissed off you'd chunter to your mates in the pub, calm down a bit - or you'd maybe sit and write something down to a fanzine editor. So you'd consider what you said, send it, the editor would then either chuck it away if it was nonsense, edit it further for clarity or print it if it was okay.

    Now it's different - in many ways I love the way people can instantly input into the mix, but we all need to remember (self included) to self-moderate a little bit before hitting the ol' post button.
    Yup, I've been guilty of it too and am sure grateful for that "Edit" button!


  15. #14
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    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by winnits View Post
    People are able to express themselves immediately now - which has its' pitfalls.

    Before with football if you were pissed off you'd chunter to your mates in the pub, calm down a bit - or you'd maybe sit and write something down to a fanzine editor. So you'd consider what you said, send it, the editor would then either chuck it away if it was nonsense, edit it further for clarity or print it if it was okay.

    Now it's different - in many ways I love the way people can instantly input into the mix, but we all need to remember (self included) to self-moderate a little bit before hitting the ol' post button.
    Excellent post!
    As they say, sometimes it is cathartic to scribble out a letter while the emotions are churning; but it is even better to think about it while taking a slow walk to the post box...


  16. #15

    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    By the way, where do you come across copies of the Evening Post from the Victorian era? Presumably it wasn't wrapped around your fish supper...
    http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/

    It's expensive though. I've been researching my family tree, but have had a look at some of the early Forest stuff which was interesting. There were some weird rules at the start by the look of it. One game report indicated that there were two goalkeepers per team and another said that we won by one or two rouges, which are either akin to corners or something like the endzone catch in American football.

    There were multiple game rules back in the early days and they could play different rules in consecutive games. Thank goodness that doesn't happen now. Could you imagine playing one set of rules at home and another away? I can imagine the arguments now, "If only we'd been playing the Nottingham rules we would have won the game - Sheffield Rules suck!"


  17. #16

    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Sinister View Post
    Excellent post!
    As they say, sometimes it is cathartic to scribble out a letter while the emotions are churning; but it is even better to think about it while taking a slow walk to the post box...
    Am I the only one who writes replies to things on here then thinks about them and cancels them without posting them?


  18. #17
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    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Red Till Dead View Post
    Am I the only one who writes replies to things on here then thinks about them and cancels them without posting them?
    No mate, I do post too many without taking that slow walk... but then again I do delete a lot that I have typed in haste...
    The ability to self-edit is a difficult one to cultivate and I do have a number of posts that I now think "Why?" when I read them again.


  19. #18
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    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    I like to go on a 3 day hike in the Peak District before each post


  20. #19

    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Rubbish article. Within two years we'd won the Football Alliance and were champions of England (sort of). Typical NEP shit-stirring.


  21. #20

    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Red Till Dead View Post
    http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/

    It's expensive though. I've been researching my family tree, but have had a look at some of the early Forest stuff which was interesting. There were some weird rules at the start by the look of it. One game report indicated that there were two goalkeepers per team and another said that we won by one or two rouges, which are either akin to corners or something like the endzone catch in American football.

    There were multiple game rules back in the early days and they could play different rules in consecutive games. Thank goodness that doesn't happen now. Could you imagine playing one set of rules at home and another away? I can imagine the arguments now, "If only we'd been playing the Nottingham rules we would have won the game - Sheffield Rules suck!"
    I've recently been reading a history of cricket and that's a similar tale - they'd been playing for about 200 years before someone invented a straight bat and then another fifty years before they put the middle stump in. Amazing how sports we take for granted were formed (and amazing how difficult it is for them to change the rules now).

    Thanks for the link too, will come in useful when researching my next book (or I might just ask on here again to save money).


  22. #21
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    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by winnits View Post
    People are able to express themselves immediately now - which has its' pitfalls.


    Now it's different - in many ways I love the way people can instantly input into the mix, but we all need to remember (self included) to self-moderate a little bit before hitting the ol' post button.
    Truer words have rarely been spoken, I'm afraid. Public debate has reached new lows in the so-called information age. Most likely, it'll self-correct with time.


  23. #22
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    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Red Till Dead View Post
    Am I the only one who writes replies to things on here then thinks about them and cancels them without posting them?
    Nah, i do that a lot, not enough times probably.


  24. #23

    Default Re: Problems at Forest are nothing new

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I've recently been reading a history of cricket and that's a similar tale - they'd been playing for about 200 years before someone invented a straight bat and then another fifty years before they put the middle stump in. Amazing how sports we take for granted were formed (and amazing how difficult it is for them to change the rules now).

    Thanks for the link too, will come in useful when researching my next book (or I might just ask on here again to save money).
    If you are interested in the historical rules of football you might like to check this out from 1871 -

    http://archive.org/stream/bookofrule...ge/n1/mode/2up

    It contains the early rules for football (2 sets - Association and Sheffield) and rugby.

    Alex you might also find this interesting. It is before Association rules and appears to be a foorball rugby cross -

    http://archive.org/stream/manualofbr.../n573/mode/2up

    A section on crickest appears in the pages before it

    Did you know that in the early 1800's they used to play a Shrove Tuesday football game in the Derby town centre?

    Last edited by I'm Red Till Dead; 16-02-13 at 11:43.

 

 

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