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Thread: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

      
  1. #1
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    Default Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    http://www.footballfancast.com/champ...est-scapegoats

    Or are Forest fans just too stubborn?


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    I've lost count the number of donkey's we've had that have gone on to be a success elsewhere.


  4. #3
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    Forest fans are too stupid when it comes to players, for example Dan Harding, people have decided he is shit and that's it for him people will always criticize him even though Reid offers him no protection. Luckily for Reid people like him so will never blame him, its a team game and as fans we are part of that team and slagging people off at every little occasion lets everyone down.


  5. #4

    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    There's a difference between being a scapegoat and just being crap, Dan Harding is not good enough for a side that's looking to get into the playoff mix, does he get some unfair sick because of Reid, probably. I don't rate Harding and would like to see him replaced but I don't think he's at fault for our bad performances and conceding goals, most of the blame for that recently I put firmly on Collins. I went to the Wolves game and even with Cohen in front of him Harding looked poor so the Reid argument goes out the window. IMO Moloney is a better player than Harding yet we've gone out and got several right backs even after some decent performances by him yet Harding plays every week.


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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    I'd welcome back the likes of McGoldrick and Derbyshire if they are going to score goals for us ......... but that is never going to happen now is it


  7. #6
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Middle of No where View Post
    There's a difference between being a scapegoat and just being crap, Dan Harding is not good enough for a side that's looking to get into the playoff mix, does he get some unfair sick because of Reid, probably. I don't rate Harding and would like to see him replaced but I don't think he's at fault for our bad performances and conceding goals, most of the blame for that recently I put firmly on Collins. I went to the Wolves game and even with Cohen in front of him Harding looked poor so the Reid argument goes out the window. IMO Moloney is a better player than Harding yet we've gone out and got several right backs even after some decent performances by him yet Harding plays every week.
    Agree with that.

    I don't think Harding is good enough.

    McGoldrick isn't a scapegoat, he just isn't good enough at Championship level, well at least he wasn't. I don't think he would be unwelcome back, but he would have to improve his performances. The loan might have done him good and at the minute we could probably do with another striker, and an inform one might be a decent shout.

    Greening wasn't ridiculed because of his hair (well not only because of his hair) it was because he looked terrible. He's past it and needs moving on, he's never going to get back in our team.

    Tudgay I rate and would never of let him go. Both him and McGoldrick need to play regulaly and they will score goals, as proved by their loan spells, but here they will not play every week, it catch 22 really.

    If they both move on I'd wish them well.


  8. #7
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    Harding is perfectly good enough for a Championship team. With protection and not being left high and dry by Reid he is an average Championship left back.

    Collins is the weak link for me, the one constant. He is the weak link because the defence is built around him, its like building a house on sand.


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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    Quote Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
    Harding is perfectly good enough for a Championship team. With protection and not being left high and dry by Reid he is an average Championship left back.Collins is the weak link for me, the one constant. He is the weak link because the defence is built around him, its like building a house on sand.
    Exactly


  10. #9
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    I think i must be the only person that rates Collins? I don't think having Ward in over Ayala has helped his own performances and recently he has made a few mistakes that weren't there earlier in the season but hey, everyone can't play at the top of their game every week can they?


  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Sheen View Post
    Forest fans are too stupid when it comes to players, for example Dan Harding, people have decided he is shit and that's it for him people will always criticize him even though Reid offers him no protection. Luckily for Reid people like him so will never blame him, its a team game and as fans we are part of that team and slagging people off at every little occasion lets everyone down.
    Top post that!

    "I've been blessed with many things in this life: an arm like a damn rocket, a c**k like a burmese python, and the mind of a f**king scientist" - Kenny Powers

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    Harding started poorly so most fans decided he was shit. I wasn't that impressed myself with his early performances to be honest. But recently I think he has been pretty solid.

    I don't think LB is a huge worry at the moment. I saw someone the other day post that we wouldn't get promoted unless we had a Shorey/Bertrand standard left-back. That is horse-shit; those 2 players are full England internationals and never belonged to us.

    Harding is OK, but the boo-boys have decided he is shit and wait anxiously for any mistake he makes so they can slaughter him. It's the same with some fans and Gillett. The bloke in front of me at Wolves was constantly telling his mate that Gillett was "useless" and "shit" and "a waste of space", an opinion he would then voice loudly whenever Gillett misplaced a pass etc. He didn't do the same when other players made mistakes and he didn't recognise any of the good work Gillett did.

    It is bizarre; ever since I have been watching Forest, there has been a (or several) scapegoats who the boo-boys decide are shit and never get off their backs until they are sold.

    Even players who went on to be poor for their whole time here were written off almost instantly. The naysayers then look smug and can say "told you he was shit" and "I knew he would be crap for us" etc. But have these people ever thought that getting on players' back from the very start of their Forest careers is almost a self-fulfilling prophecy? How can they expect to succeed without being given a chance by their own fans? There are plenty of players who have done well since leaving Forest.


  13. #12
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    Every club has a scapegoat we aren't unique


  14. #13
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    Specific to Harding...his composure is poor. When he is rushed he makes errors. Technically fine, reasonably quick. But his mental aspect is a bit suspect. And yes, Ried offers poor cover.


  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by porks View Post
    Every club has a scapegoat we aren't unique
    Thank you.
    Why do people keep banging on about how forest fans are more fickle than most other clubs.
    We are not.


  16. #15
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    Our scapegoats go on to do very well for themselves.


  17. #16
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    Quote Originally Posted by PynchonForest View Post
    Specific to Harding...his composure is poor. When he is rushed he makes errors. Technically fine, reasonably quick. But his mental aspect is a bit suspect. And yes, Ried offers poor cover.
    Fair comment. But this is where I have an issue. Harding may have poor composure and maybe his mental side is suspect, but if you want a left back who has speed, technical abiity, mentally good and great composure you aren't going to find him playing in the Championship. If you want all of those things then you're looking at the top teams in Europe and not the World.

    It's all very well looking at players and saying 'so and so is crap because he can't do this' whilst completely ignoring the fact that we're a Championship club and do not automatically have a divine right to call on the very best players who can do everything. I feel dreadfully sorry for the Forest players because they are being held up to the highest scrutiny by people who are - lets face it, professionally unqualified to analyse them and who are comparing them to the ideal player in that position, who are playing with 10 other ideal players.

    That is not a dig at you Pynchon. Just a general observation. I don't actually disagree with your post.




    PS - I still think McGoldrick is crap!


  18. #17
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    Harding is out of his depth, but is playing as well as he can. I see him as a stop-gap rather than a scapegoat.

    I've always thought McGoldrick had plenty of ability, but for whatever reason it hasn't worked out here, good luck to him at Coventry.


  19. #18
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    I started watching Forest in 1962.
    My first experience of the "scapegoating" of a player was the stick John Winfield seemed to attract.
    Then there was Alan Hinton...
    Then it was Barry Lyons...
    Then it was..
    Then it was...
    Problem is, I am as bad as any Forest fan - I never took to Ian Wallace; for the current team I have been pretty damning about Ayala...
    Is it soemthing that is in the DNA of being a fan?


  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Fair comment. But this is where I have an issue. Harding may have poor composure and maybe his mental side is suspect, but if you want a left back who has speed, technical abiity, mentally good and great composure you aren't going to find him playing in the Championship. If you want all of those things then you're looking at the top teams in Europe and not the World.

    It's all very well looking at players and saying 'so and so is crap because he can't do this' whilst completely ignoring the fact that we're a Championship club and do not automatically have a divine right to call on the very best players who can do everything. I feel dreadfully sorry for the Forest players because they are being held up to the highest scrutiny by people who are - lets face it, professionally unqualified to analyse them and who are comparing them to the ideal player in that position, who are playing with 10 other ideal players.

    That is not a dig at you Pynchon. Just a general observation. I don't actually disagree with your post.




    PS - I still think McGoldrick is crap!
    It's a great point Erik. I think many fans watch the Premier League on MOTD or Sky and expect Forest to play at the same standard.

    The beast is stirring yet again!! :devil:

    it has nothing to do with football or NFFC

  21. #20
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Pope View Post
    It's a great point Erik. I think many fans watch the Premier League on MOTD or Sky and expect Forest to play at the same standard.
    You think lots of Forest fans are unable to distinguish between premier standard and championship standard players?

    Really?


  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gedlingred View Post
    You think lots of Forest fans are unable to distinguish between premier standard and championship standard players?

    Really?
    Really. Just have a listen on match day. The abuse players get when they make a mistake is ridiculous.


  23. #22
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    sounds like this guys got a problem with andy reid, lets bust him up.

    In all seriousness though i hated Reid when he first came to the city ground; constantly gave the ball away and I really had it in for him he could do no right. But then he got much better after 5 games or so and I forgave him, the end.


  24. #23
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    I'm just baffled by some of you Collins haters. Granted, he's not had the best run of games recently, in fact his last 3 performances have been pretty dire. But apart from that he has been a rock and a constant physical prescence. Him playing with a different centre half, right back and left back every week will hardly improve his performances will it?

    We are going round the players looking for someone to blame. The fact is, we are 9th not 21st and people need to realise miracles don't happen overnight.

    Somehow we have lost all patience and its pathetic. Saturday was absolutely atrocious by some of our fans and the players are right to feel somewhat bewildered.

    On another note, those fans in the Brian Clough lower shouting "Clough wouldnt of kept him on this long" forget Sir Brian didnt work miracles overnight either.

    Last edited by McLeftfoot; 06-12-12 at 01:02.

  25. #24
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    Quote Originally Posted by McLeftfoot View Post
    I'm just baffled by some of you Collins haters. Granted, he's not had the best run of games recently, in fact his last 3 performances have been pretty dire. But apart from that he has been a rock and a constant physical prescence. Him playing with a different centre half, right back and left back every week will hardly improve his performances will it?

    We are going round the players looking for someone to blame. The fact is, we are 9th not 21st and people need to realise miracles don't happen overnight.

    Somehow we have lost all patience and its pathetic. Saturday was absolutely atrocious by some of our fans and the players are right to feel somewhat bewildered.

    On another note, those fans in the Brian Clough lower shouting "Clough wouldnt of kept him on this long" forget Sir Brian didnt work miracles overnight either.
    Great post.

    If we continue on this poor run, say 3 losses 2 draws out the next 5 games, and do so when we've players back fit then fair enough, I'll start to worry. But Hull are a good side, they setup well, we were skanked anyway and looking for someone to blame is silly.

    We're getting results which a mid-table sides do, apart from Milwall there's not been a result to panic at. Those who live in the real world will know that traveling to Ipswich on a rotten Tuesday night, and on the back of them appointing a new manager who's good at this level, was always a massive banana skin too.

    What's encouraging is that it highlights just how good we are when all our players are fit. Hopefully this may encourage Fawaz & Co to invest a bit more in the side, and appreciate that out first 11 may be top 6 (for me top 6 frontline, top 6 midfield, mid-table defence), but we need a bit more strength in depth.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: Will there be any going back for scapegoats?

    Quote Originally Posted by McLeftfoot View Post
    I'm just baffled by some of you Collins haters. Granted, he's not had the best run of games recently, in fact his last 3 performances have been pretty dire. But apart from that he has been a rock and a constant physical prescence. Him playing with a different centre half, right back and left back every week will hardly improve his performances will it?

    We are going round the players looking for someone to blame. The fact is, we are 9th not 21st and people need to realise miracles don't happen overnight.

    Somehow we have lost all patience and its pathetic. Saturday was absolutely atrocious by some of our fans and the players are right to feel somewhat bewildered.

    On another note, those fans in the Brian Clough lower shouting "Clough wouldnt of kept him on this long" forget Sir Brian didnt work miracles overnight either.
    He is a silent captain, he is weak, and his decision making is poor. My eyebrow was first raised against Wigan where for one goal he completely committed himself and rushed towards the ball in the style of a Sunday league player, he was totally by passed and they went through and scored. He is constantly rushing out of position and being taken out of the game, is vunerable to the straight ball over his head, his total lack of strength against Helgusson for Cardiffs goal was ridiculous. One game Harding bailed him out twice after his man got in behind him, yet I saw someone on here proclaim that Harding should be buying Collins a pint for bailing him out.

    I am not a hater, I just do not think he has been anywhere near solid. I dont boo, or shout players down, but at the same time I am not blind to his weaknesses and think he has more than any of our other defenders.

    One thing that does annoy me with Harding is his reluctance to overlap, or just push it down the line and provide us with a little width. Its not like he cannot do it, I think that we have just sapped him of his self belief.


 

 

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