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Thread: McGugan.

  1. #51
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Quote Originally Posted by gedlingred View Post
    We'd be bottom now without his goals and assists.

    Good idea.
    Yes, it is.

    Because the person that would've taken his place would have a worked a lot harder. Probably tracked back, and created and scored goals.

    Shocking logic used by you, saying that we'd be bottom without him. Bonkers in fact. But I suppose you must've enjoyed watching him duck out of tackles, not create anything, not work much defensively, and basically be a passenger.

    Nobody should get away with being a passenger.


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  3. #52
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Quote Originally Posted by nffc13 View Post
    Yes, it is.

    Because the person that would've taken his place would have a worked a lot harder. Probably tracked back, and created and scored goals.

    Shocking logic used by you, saying that we'd be bottom without him. Bonkers in fact. But I suppose you must've enjoyed watching him duck out of tackles, not create anything, not work much defensively, and basically be a passenger.

    Nobody should get away with being a passenger.
    Not create anything? You do know who set Cox up at Huddersfield and Birmingham.

    In fact, along with Cox and Blackstock, he has the top assists.

    Passenger? Who scored a worldy at Bolton? Who scored against Charlton?

    Again, leading scorer in the league with Cox and Blackstock.

    And who replaced him at Leeds 1st half? Who worked harder and created and scored goals in our worst half of football this season?

    And in the game he didn't feature in. Wigan. That went well.

    And you call my logic shocking.


  4. #53
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    We have scored the grand total of ten goals in 8 games, McGugan has contributed to 4 of these in some way (2 goals 2 assists). A delightful cross for Cox against Brum, and a belter against Bolton springs to mind. And bare in mind most forest signings don't seem to live up to expectation it's pretty daft to fantasise that a replacement would work even harder, now that's just pure guess work. Shocking arguments all round.

    Reid misplaces more passes and left the defence more exposed yesterday. Forest on the whole haven't played great. We could probably find arguments to criticise every player, it's just pointless. McGugan has his uses, his stats show that, he can't carry a whole team, people shouldn't expect that. I guess he is this years scape goat, yes?


  5. #54
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke View Post
    We have scored the grand total of ten goals in 8 games, McGugan has contributed to 4 of these in some way (2 goals 2 assists). A delightful cross for Cox against Brum, and a belter against Bolton springs to mind. And bare in mind most forest signings don't seem to live up to expectation it's pretty daft to fantasise that a replacement would work even harder, now that's just pure guess work. Shocking arguments all round.

    Reid misplaces more passes and left the defence more exposed yesterday. Forest on the whole haven't played great. We could probably find arguments to criticise every player, it's just pointless. McGugan has his uses, his stats show that, he can't carry a whole team, people shouldn't expect that. I guess he is this years scape goat, yes?
    Shocking logic Luke!


  6. #55
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Quote Originally Posted by gedlingred View Post
    Not create anything? You do know who set Cox up at Huddersfield and Birmingham.

    In fact, along with Cox and Blackstock, he has the top assists.

    Passenger? Who scored a worldy at Bolton? Who scored against Charlton?

    Again, leading scorer in the league with Cox and Blackstock.

    And who replaced him at Leeds 1st half? Who worked harder and created and scored goals in our worst half of football this season?

    And in the game he didn't feature in. Wigan. That went well.

    And you call my logic shocking.

    Remind me when Huddersfield was. Remind me when Birmingham was.

    I went to both. I watched as McGugan assisted in both. I also watched as he played poorly in both.

    When was Bolton? When was Charlton. Both a while ago.

    He came on at Leeds. Didn't do much at all. It was more the change in formation that worked, than anything else.

    Wigan are a tough Prem side.

    Yes, your logic is still shocking.


  7. #56
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Quote Originally Posted by nffc13 View Post
    Remind me when Huddersfield was. Remind me when Birmingham was.

    I went to both. I watched as McGugan assisted in both. I also watched as he played poorly in both.

    When was Bolton? When was Charlton. Both a while ago.

    He came on at Leeds. Didn't do much at all. It was more the change in formation that worked, than anything else.

    Wigan are a tough Prem side.

    Yes, your logic is still shocking.
    They were all this season.

    Which is 8 games old.


  8. #57
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    He does want tax bringing down to 25% though

    I mean, even if you thought that, would you let them print it in the programme ?


  9. #58
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Got totally lost against Derby, hasn't ever had a good game against then, totally scuffed that shot on the edge of the box I was sure he was going to bury. Dunno what it is about him. Calling him shit is beyond harsh though but if he were consistent we'd have been promoted a long time ago, carried our sorry arses for most of 10/11.

    Overall though, he is having a decent season (yeah a whole 8 games in)

    Last edited by Beasty; 01-10-12 at 23:12.
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  10. #59
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Middle of No where View Post
    I'm not a McGugan fan in any way shape or form but this is just getting ridiculous now, I've never seen opinion swing so much and so quickly, he has one good game and everyone thinks we should build the team around him and sign him up on a 30 year contract, he has one bad game and he's utter crap and we should sell!
    Totally agree, it's a joke.


  11. #60

    Default Re: McGugan.

    Lewis for reminds me of another forest player/legend IAN WOAN

    Can score a goal from nowhere, well set up goals, can hold up the ball.

    Off the ball lazy.


  12. #61
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    It's not so much he had one crap game. But does a player without a work ethic----can this type thrive ina possession based game where movement will be key?

    Nope.

    This is why methinks we should sell when the chance arises. Lazy players end up being contributers on non-successful teams. And understand, for instance, taht I don't find a guy like Berbatov lazy because, though he doesn't run a ton, his movement is highly intelligent. I'm not sure Lewis has teh same footballing brain as a Berba. Aside from having a fifth of the ability.

    I'm trying to think of one real lazy player on any of the successful Prem teams. It's very hard. That should tell us something. Wait, I have one....Nani. And if you've watched United this season, you've seen what a liability this guy can be. Maybe Lewis is Nani-lite?


  13. #62
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Quote Originally Posted by james r View Post
    Lewis for reminds me of another forest player/legend IAN WOAN

    Can score a goal from nowhere, well set up goals, can hold up the ball.

    Off the ball lazy.
    That's a decent comparison. Lewis has too much talent to leave out, but he's a liability played in the centre, especially when he's blunting Guedioura's game because of it. Play him on the right side of our 4-1-3-2, make sure he knows he's competing against Lansbury and we should get the best out of him.


  14. #63
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    I think Lewis is struggling from being in a narrow midfield which compacts the opposition into the middle of the pitch as there's little threat from the wings. Lewis needs space to work in - he's not the most pacey or agile, nor does he have lots of strength. His best assets are when he's got time to shoot (Bolton) or time and space for both he and the man he's trying to find with a pass (Huddersfield, Birmingham). Bringing in width to our game would mean the opposition have to play wider to counter that or risk letting our wide players have free reign.

    Obviously a bit of a problem at the moment as we don't have any out and out wingers, but we could play a five man midfield and tell Reid and Coppinger or Lansbury to hug the touchline. This'd give us a bit more space and probably see us enact a slow passing game, rather than a quick, direct-ish counter attacking game we've seemingly tried to enact recently.

    Consider our formation against Derby:


    Camp
    Halford Ayala Collins Harding
    Gillett
    Cohen McGugan Reid
    Blackstock Cox

    Four central midfielders. Our only box-to-box midfielder stuck on the right hand side of the more advanced trio, which, considering he's a left footer, meant cutting inside more often than not. Had Cohen been on the left or Harding got forward more we'd have stretched Derby a bit more. Not lots but a bit. Halford is never going to get forward enough.

    The problem with this formation is that despite it possessing many decent passers of the ball, there are simply not enough outlets. McGugan can't really do anything other than simple passes side ways in this as his midfield colleagues are stood next to him. A forward pass means the striker holds it up and gives it back to one of the central midfielders rather than wide, presuming you're not on the counter attack which Derby stopped us doing constantly on Sunday by tripping anytime it looked like it was on.

    Against Birmingham we need to try something different. We know this team can keep the ball well as we've seen it against Charlton. We know that we can play fluidly as we've against Huddersfield, Bristol City and the first half of the Bolton game. What we need to add is more width. McGugan would look a much better player if we went for something like this say:


    Camp
    Hutchinson Ayala Collins Halford
    Gilett Guedioura
    Lansbury McGugan Cohen
    Cox

    Feel free to swap Reid in for Cohen, Cohen in for Guedioura, Coppinger for Lansbury and even Majewski for McGugan.

    Something like that gives you more options in the midfield to keep the ball. You've got energy (Cohen, Guedioura), you've got players who can support the lone striker (Lansbury, McGugan, Majewski) and you've got someone to retain the ball and hold the midfield (Gillett). Not to mention you've also got Hutchinson who can push on and provide an outlet down the right, whilst retaining Halford's long throws and the ability to mix it up a bit by having him on the left. The defence are also tall and strong, which once they've settled should mean were a bit more competent from set pieces, both attacking and defending.

    Football Manager 2013 gold star, me thinks.

    Oh, one last thing, McGugan needs to be taken off free-kicks. Bit like Roberto Carlos, one absolute cracker means he's still allowed to take them despite hitting the wall on practically every occasion since.


  15. #64
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Halford at left back? Really? If SOD does that again, then what will happen to Hardings confidence? Shoudlnt we be building someones confidence rather than playing a right footed utility player in place of him? I'm sure the following time Harding plays he'll be super-confident? And then a pass gets misplaced and the ground is on his back?
    Oh - didnt we see this happen with another player at left back? Who went onto be one of the contenders for player of the season? (and no bloody wonder he wanted to leave if the fans were like that towards him!)


    Last edited by Danny Apathy; 02-10-12 at 13:29.

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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Apathy View Post
    Halford at left back? Really? If SOD does that again, then what will happen to Hardings confidence? Shoudlnt we be building someones confidence rather than playing a right footed utility player in place of him?
    best game we played was against charlton when....

    harding was on the bench


  17. #66
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Quote Originally Posted by kevin View Post
    best game we played was against charlton when....

    harding was on the bench
    So, I know - lets play the rest of the season with no left back in the side (and an out of position right back in his place) - and then when he does play in the side, lets get on his back from the first minute.
    Added to that, how many games had we played at that stage? Do you expect every player to settle in instantly as part of a back four? Or give it one game and drop him?


  18. #67
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    We need another left back. Badly.


  19. #68
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Look at McGugan's goals and assists this season - he's been on the right side of our midfield for all of them (left for free kick vs Charlton, but still out wide). He's created nothing playing in the centre, only when he's been swapped around has he produced anything.

    Play him on the right and have Lansbury pushing him hard for his place. Stop persisting with him in the middle where his crap work rate leaves us vulnerable.


  20. #69
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Quote Originally Posted by PynchonForest View Post
    We need another left back. Badly.
    Maybe so, and I agree that Harding hasnt been hugely impressive thus far - but again (as with Mcgugan and half the team this season), we've played very few games, hes in a completely new team, new back four, new way of playing, new tactics...and it isnt like - Cox and Gillett aside - we've had stunning performances from all players in the team!!!
    And if we apparently do want to get the best out of him (lets face it, he was an ever-present for a team promoted from this league last season) then surely he needs confidence and the best chance to build up consistency? How will it make a player do well if hes dropped and judged completely after a handful of games?
    Add to that the fact that Reid in front of him has been off colour the last few games and given him little or no cover. But no - its still all his fault.

    I think Forest fans need to get over themselves and reign in judgement of players until end of November at the earliest.
    Currently we have one specialist left back, and getting on his back at every possibility isnt the way to good performances. Same goes for Mcgugan, Ayala and the rest of them.

    Can't the sport of scapegoating start by late Nov, early Dec at least?

    Last edited by Danny Apathy; 02-10-12 at 13:50.

  21. #70
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Quote Originally Posted by PynchonForest View Post
    We need another left back. Badly.
    Aaaaaahhhhhhh, here it goes!


  22. #71
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    Quote Originally Posted by PynchonForest View Post
    We need another left back. Badly.
    We don't need one 'badly' at all. Most left backs in the league would struggle when there's no winger backing him up. Reid leaves him on his own, and most of the time doesn't track his man. That's where the goal came from on Sunday, wasn't Harding's fault.


  23. #72
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    The team we have is more than good enough, give them time to get going. Reading were in the relegation zone around xmas time last year. It's getting tiresome every time we lose a game all of a sudden "all of the players are shite" and "sack the manager" etc...


  24. #73

    Default Re: McGugan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Apathy View Post
    (lets face it, he was an ever-present for a team promoted from this league last season)
    According to the OS he made 20 league appearance last season, played less than half the league games, not exactly what I would call ever present. For the record I don't rate him but I'm not sure if I'd want Halford there as he doesn't look that arsed and to put Cohen there is a waste.


  25. #74
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    I'm not saying we need one to replace Harding. But we need another for depth. I'm not sold on Halford at left back, nor do I think we should use Cohen there.


  26. #75
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    Default Re: McGugan.

    no coincidence we played far much better when mcgugan came off the pitch

    backup player from now on


 

 

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