Welcome to the LTLF Forest Forum.
Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 103

Thread: Is football Racist

      
  1. #1

    Default Is football Racist

    I have just watched this documentary and it has actually made me rather quite angry but not for the obvious reason.

    The end of the documentary had Clarke Carlisle questioning why there are not many black managers in the game. Him and John Barnes came to the conclusion that these guys aren't given a fair chance due to the colour of their skin. Even when they do get employed, they are often sacked before they would have if they were white.

    Now the bit that really pissed me off....."Clubs should be forced to interview a certain percentage of black candidates for a role". Isn't this being racist? Should they also be forced to interview a percentage or gingers, disabled people and women? O and every job must have a least one applicant from Wales and Ireland and Scotland whilst we are at it.

    The best man gets the job, it's a simple as that in my eyes.

    I'm surprised that Ince didn't make an appearance!


  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Posts
    Many

  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Wokingham/London
    Posts
    7,475

    Default

    I hate this positive discrimination bollocks.

    Best man (or woman) for the job, everything else is irrelevant


  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    5,201

    Default

    They were trying to say that the English game was still racist, however every example of racism in football was in European football!


  5. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    The Sarf
    Posts
    28,097

    Default

    It was a decent documentary till the John Barnes bit.

    John Barnes is full of shit.


  6. #5

    Default

    John Barnes and Paul Ince didn't fail because they were black. They failed due to the fact they are shit football managers, FACT!


  7. #6
    TheDude
    Guest

    Default

    Ince will look for any excuse


  8. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    1,505

    Default Re: Is football Racist

    I cannot believe that there is racism amongst footballers in England. Misogyny and homophobia maybe.

    There maybe racism amongst the management boards of clubs that tend to be mostly white, but would need more evidence to show this


  9. #8
    Red til I'm dead
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,767

    Default Re: Is football Racist

    Quote Originally Posted by thehockleyhustler View Post
    I have just watched this documentary and it has actually made me rather quite angry but not for the obvious reason.

    The end of the documentary had Clarke Carlisle questioning why there are not many black managers in the game. Him and John Barnes came to the conclusion that these guys aren't given a fair chance due to the colour of their skin. Even when they do get employed, they are often sacked before they would have if they were white.
    Now the bit that really pissed me off....."Clubs should be forced to interview a certain percentage of black candidates for a role". Isn't this being racist? Should they also be forced to interview a percentage or gingers, disabled people and women? O and every job must have a least one applicant from Wales and Ireland and Scotland whilst we are at it.

    The best man gets the job, it's a simple as that in my eyes.

    I'm surprised that Ince didn't make an appearance!
    This type of over simplistic thinking always baffles me. There are only 2/3/4 (delete as applicable) black managers out of 92 in English football league and Prem teams therefore it must be racism.

    How about they take a more in-depth look at the issue? Most managers are former players. Black players only started to come to the fore in English football in the 1970s, and even then they were in a very small minority. Even when I was a kid (90s) black players were still in a pretty small minority in the English game. People like Ince, Carlton Palmer and Paul Parker are still not even 50 yet. Add in all the older managers still knocking about who are 50+ and subtract all the black players who didnt want to go into management and black managers are still in the same small minority they were when they were players. So its no surprise that there arent that many in the game atm.

    If the situation is still the same in 10-15 years then people shouting racism may have a point, but at the moment Id say its just the proportion of black players from that era was a small minority.

    Also, another point that people like to make when talking about this is how difficult it is for black coaches with all their badges to get a job at any level. Therefore it must be due to racism. But they never give any stats about how difficult it is for any young coaches with all their badges to get jobs at any level. Surely if you are going to say it is MORE difficult for a black coach, you should say how easy/difficult it is for a white coach so we can compare and conclude?

    The fact is that football clubs love hiring the same old duffers who have failed in various previous jobs. Regardless of race. I am sure that in the next 20 years Paul Ince will firmly establish himself as one of these failed merry-go-round managers, regardless of his race.

    Im not saying theres no racism in football, Im sure there are plenty of dinosaurs in boardrooms around the country, but surely if it is to be discussed seriously there needs to be some sort of rational, logical survey/research done first? Instead of just, "Michael Johnson has coaching badges and cant get a job. He played in the Premiership. Plus, look at the numbers of black managers = must be racism"

    Positive discrimination is still discrimination, its just racism in another form. And as for people saying the Rooney rule in NFL (at least one candidate for every job must be black) has worked because numbers of black coaches have gone up, and clubs consider candidates who they previously wouldnt have, you could apply that to anything. For example, if at least one candidate for every job had to be bald/ginger/Irish/under 30/from non-league or whatever other arbitary label you want to put on it, of course clubs would discover candidates they wouldnt have previously known about. But I wouldnt say that it tackles discrimination particularly, just gives some people a leg up for no other reason than their race/background/colour/nationality etc.


  10. #9
    Papa Shango
    Guest

    Default

    I'd like to know cols opinion on this


  11. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    1,505

    Default Re: Is football Racist

    Quote Originally Posted by RealRed85 View Post
    This type of over simplistic thinking always baffles me. There are only 2/3/4 (delete as applicable) black managers out of 92 in English football league and Prem teams therefore it must be racism.

    How about they take a more in-depth look at the issue? Most managers are former players. Black players only started to come to the fore in English football in the 1970s, and even then they were in a very small minority. Even when I was a kid (90s) black players were still in a pretty small minority in the English game. People like Ince, Carlton Palmer and Paul Parker are still not even 50 yet. Add in all the older managers still knocking about who are 50+ and subtract all the black players who didnt want to go into management and black managers are still in the same small minority they were when they were players. So its no surprise that there arent that many in the game atm.

    If the situation is still the same in 10-15 years then people shouting racism may have a point, but at the moment Id say its just the proportion of black players from that era was a small minority.

    Also, another point that people like to make when talking about this is how difficult it is for black coaches with all their badges to get a job at any level. Therefore it must be due to racism. But they never give any stats about how difficult it is for any young coaches with all their badges to get jobs at any level. Surely if you are going to say it is MORE difficult for a black coach, you should say how easy/difficult it is for a white coach so we can compare and conclude?

    The fact is that football clubs love hiring the same old duffers who have failed in various previous jobs. Regardless of race. I am sure that in the next 20 years Paul Ince will firmly establish himself as one of these failed merry-go-round managers, regardless of his race.

    Im not saying theres no racism in football, Im sure there are plenty of dinosaurs in boardrooms around the country, but surely if it is to be discussed seriously there needs to be some sort of rational, logical survey/research done first? Instead of just, "Michael Johnson has coaching badges and cant get a job. He played in the Premiership. Plus, look at the numbers of black managers = must be racism"

    Positive discrimination is still discrimination, its just racism in another form. And as for people saying the Rooney rule in NFL (at least one candidate for every job must be black) has worked because numbers of black coaches have gone up, and clubs consider candidates who they previously wouldnt have, you could apply that to anything. For example, if at least one candidate for every job had to be bald/ginger/Irish/under 30/from non-league or whatever other arbitary label you want to put on it, of course clubs would discover candidates they wouldnt have previously known about. But I wouldnt say that it tackles discrimination particularly, just gives some people a leg up for no other reason than their race/background/colour/nationality etc.
    This. Good points


  12. #11

    Default Re: Is football Racist

    Quote Originally Posted by thehockleyhustler View Post
    The end of the documentary had Clarke Carlisle questioning why there are not many black managers in the game. Him and John Barnes came to the conclusion that these guys aren't given a fair chance due to the colour of their skin. Even when they do get employed, they are often sacked before they would have if they were white.
    Steve Cotterill must be black then!

    And our owners racist against all non-whites...


  13. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Milan, Italy
    Posts
    5,910

    Default Re: Is football Racist

    "whoever thought that racism is completely gone out of football is being naive" as said by our Dex who if I'm being honest, probably knows more about it then pretty much everyone here.


  14. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    17,612

    Default Re: Is football Racist

    Talking about this at work today.........

    Trent End chanted at Clyde Best, playing for West HAM...........Zigger zagger zigger
    West Hams got a ******

    Is the only time I can honestly recall Forest fans and racist chanting, for those members thinking ''Who the hell is Clyde Best '', I am talking about 1968.

    After that, comes the chant aimed at Leicester fans, a more aimed chant on the regular wind up of fans.......Forest were subject to ''Your just a small town in Derby ''........Forest subjected to fester fans........''Your just a town full of ****'s '', Why sing that, because of the guaranteed reaction from fester fans, works every time !.

    Would love to read comments about how mnay times forum members have witnessed racist chanting. Individual moronic outburst's are not included, because if enough people are gathered together.....some must be be ignorant fools !.

    The stars represent the oh so dreadful shortening of Pakistani that some Brits use, p- a- k- i ' s , whilst full blown and offensive swear words are allowed, strange old world !

    Last edited by sedgred; 18-07-12 at 00:27.

  15. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    5,398

    Default Re: Is football Racist

    Football of course has elements of racism and it will never go away.

    Why? Because nothing like this is ever 100% eradicated and it never will be. There will always be a small minority who think being racist is acceptable and alright. Homophobia, Racism, Discrimination as a whole will always exist in most, probably all walks of life. That may not be fair or right but that is just how it is.

    It is annoying to think that is how it is but why can it not be recognised that there has been massive achievements made in recent years in reducing this problem? Things have improved massively and everyone now does have the right to play football or be involved in it regardless of colour, religion or nationality. Considering this was a massive issue and considered acceptable to a point certainly way before I started watching football there has been some big progress. I just think whilst nobody should have to suffer from this kind of abuse and never really should have in the first place the fact that it happens very rarely now should be noted and recognised by the footballing world as an achievement instead of the odd minority leading to a generalisation of "football is a racist sport". Granted it is not the resolution to the problem but like I said it is massive progress it shows some of the work into resolving it has had a big effect on english football as a whole.

    As for black managers well I just don't believe that the colour of their skin comes into it. One very simple thought sums that up club owners are willing to pay up on big transfer fees and wages for playing staff of varying ethnicities but when it comes to managerial appointments they suddenly become racists? It is a daft theory in my view.


  16. #15
    Red til I'm dead
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,767

    Default Re: Is football Racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley View Post
    "whoever thought that racism is completely gone out of football is being naive" as said by our Dex who if I'm being honest, probably knows more about it then pretty much everyone here.
    Id say naive at best, deluded at worst. Racism exists in society, its a fact. Im not condoning it, but it does. To think it doesnt in football is foolish.

    Having said that, I think we are doing more than most in this country to try and stamp it out. I dont always agree with the methods but at least its an issue here. UEFA fining National Federations sums like 10,000 euros for persistent and loud monkey chanting at black players by a large section of the crowd shows how seriously they take it - not very at all. Ive been to games in Italy and Spain and heard stuff that shocked me. Suffice to say, if it were done in England, the perpetrators would not only be ejected from the ground, but most likely face criminal proceedings too.


  17. #16
    Red til I'm dead
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,767

    Default Re: Is football Racist

    Quote Originally Posted by mouldynffc View Post
    As for black managers well I just don't believe that the colour of their skin comes into it. One very simple thought sums that up club owners are willing to pay up on big transfer fees and wages for playing staff of varying ethnicities but when it comes to managerial appointments they suddenly become racists? It is a daft theory in my view.
    This is a good point. Football clubs are interested in one thing and one thing only - success. In the past they have employed woman-beaters, rapists, thugs, criminals, racists, killers and fraudsters - just about anyone if they feel they can do the job and gain the club an advantage.

    Football chairmen have proven that they have no problem putting morals to one side if they think their club can benefit so Im sure they would have no problem putting their own misguided prejudices aside if they thought it would lead to success for their club. I dont think any chairman, even a racist one, would have turned down Drogba in his pomp, and the same goes for managers


  18. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Oxford
    Posts
    4,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sedgred
    Talking about this at work today.........

    Trent End chanted at Clyde Best, playing for West HAM...........Zigger zagger zigger
    West Hams got a ******

    Is the only time I can honestly recall Forest fans and racist chanting, for those members thinking ''Who the hell is Clyde Best '', I am talking about 1968.

    After that, comes the chant aimed at Leicester fans, a more aimed chant on the regular wind up of fans.......Forest were subject to ''Your just a small town in Derby ''........Forest subjected to fester fans........''Your just a town full of ****'s '', Why sing that, because of the guaranteed reaction from fester fans, works every time !.

    Would love to read comments about how mnay times forum members have witnessed racist chanting. Individual moronic outburst's are not included, because if enough people are gathered together.....some must be be ignorant fools !.

    The stars represent the oh so dreadful shortening of Pakistani that some Brits use, p- a- k- i ' s , whilst full blown and offensive swear words are allowed, strange old world !
    Tempting but this little fishy is going to swim right by


  19. #18
    Rice XXV
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ, U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,509

    Default Re: Is football Racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley View Post
    "whoever thought that racism is completely gone out of football is being naive" as said by our Dex who if I'm being honest, probably knows more about it then pretty much everyone here.
    I wouldnt be so sure. Oftentimes those who would presumably be the target of racism become hypersensitive to every minor incident, seeing every act as an example of racism. Slow service at a restaurant? It's because I'm black. Laundry come back from the cleaners wrinkled? That Chinese owner hates blacks. People whispering across the room? Must be calling me a n****r. Nothing ever happens without race being a factor in their minds. Tell those stories to a 70 year old black man who grew up in Birmingham Alabama and he'll laugh you out of the room. He came up being sprayed with firehoses and bitten by German shepards,, unable to even enter certain restaurants or even get water out of the same fountain as a white. You may experience little inconveniences from time to time that very well may be the result of individual racism, but the institutional abuse of yesteryear is long gone and living your life with some persecution complex and always on the lookout for any opportunity to play the victim is a load of shit and needs to end if we ever expect to move forward. This is all an Americans point of view, but I imagine its similar over there.


  20. #19
    Last one standing
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    25,738

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spunky Spank
    I'd like to know cols opinion on this
    I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows.


  21. #20
    woes fan
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    JHB - South Africa
    Posts
    83

    Default Re: Is football Racist

    Football is not racist, people are.


  22. #21
    Miserable git, and proud.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wakefield, but originally from Wollaton
    Posts
    1,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sedgred View Post
    Talking about this at work today.........

    Trent End chanted at Clyde Best, playing for West HAM...........Zigger zagger zigger
    West Hams got a ******

    Is the only time I can honestly recall Forest fans and racist chanting, for those members thinking ''Who the hell is Clyde Best '', I am talking about 1968.

    After that, comes the chant aimed at Leicester fans, a more aimed chant on the regular wind up of fans.......Forest were subject to ''Your just a small town in Derby ''........Forest subjected to fester fans........''Your just a town full of ****'s '', Why sing that, because of the guaranteed reaction from fester fans, works every time !.

    Would love to read comments about how mnay times forum members have witnessed racist chanting. Individual moronic outburst's are not included, because if enough people are gathered together.....some must be be ignorant fools !.

    The stars represent the oh so dreadful shortening of Pakistani that some Brits use, p- a- k- i ' s , whilst full blown and offensive swear words are allowed, strange old world !
    Oh it's still rife at Forest now, some of the racist shit being spouted in B Block when Adebola came on for Hull at Forest last October was nothing short of unbelievable.


  23. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    966

    Default

    Yes, Rio Ferdinand is clearly racist


  24. #23
    Billy Davies long lost lovechild.
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    39,459

    Default Re: Is football Racist

    Spot the good manager.....

    John Barnes

    Paul Ince

    Carlton Palmer

    Chris Kamara......

    Crap managers are crap managers regardless of their colour, to suggest any of the above are out of management because they are good but discriminated against is laughable.

    Last edited by Alf-aSemedoBlueJeans&Chinos; 18-07-12 at 08:30.

  25. #24
    Mr Mojo Risin'
    Guest

    Default Re: Is football Racist

    Quote Originally Posted by sedgred View Post
    Talking about this at work today.........

    Trent End chanted at Clyde Best, playing for West HAM...........Zigger zagger zigger
    West Hams got a ******

    Is the only time I can honestly recall Forest fans and racist chanting, for those members thinking ''Who the hell is Clyde Best '', I am talking about 1968.

    After that, comes the chant aimed at Leicester fans, a more aimed chant on the regular wind up of fans.......Forest were subject to ''Your just a small town in Derby ''........Forest subjected to fester fans........''Your just a town full of ****'s '', Why sing that, because of the guaranteed reaction from fester fans, works every time !.

    Would love to read comments about how mnay times forum members have witnessed racist chanting. Individual moronic outburst's are not included, because if enough people are gathered together.....some must be be ignorant fools !.

    The stars represent the oh so dreadful shortening of Pakistani that some Brits use, p- a- k- i ' s , whilst full blown and offensive swear words are allowed, strange old world !
    There was definitely monkey chanting and even the national front anthem (there ain't no black in the union jack etc.) being sung in the Trent End in the mid to late 70s. I remember it very well unfortunatley.


  26. #25

    Default Re: Is football Racist

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDude View Post
    Ince will look for any excuse
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...held-back.html


 

 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •