Hypothetically...

**Psycho's Dragon** · 08-05-12, 13:54

Originally Posted by Alf-Inge of Fudge

Can't you see the damage that McClaren did in those 10 games though, and that his pre-season actions and comments on the players, the board, the club and he's threats to walk totally destroyed any unity in the squad?

If he'd come in with an uzi and executed our best players after 1 game would it have been too soon to sack him? Because that's the only way he could have done any more damage.

I just think 10 games is too soon in normal circumstances though you have made a strong argument that it was anything but normal.

Bit of a worn out cliche perhaps but there would be several successful managers who really messed up dressing room harmony and had terrible starts and went on to do great things.

The key thing is though he walked - so didn't want to be with the club anymore and that is different. Until he started to threaten to walk out I would've given him the chance despite everything else and maybe he would've turned it around.

Though as I said he does seem to have a knack of turning everything he touches to shit at the moment but I don't think you can say that is the case throughout his career.

**LTLF Sponsors** · 08-05-12 13:54

**Hurricane Fly** · 08-05-12, 14:12

Originally Posted by Psycho's Dragon

No I thought this as well even if we could have afforded to sack him I think 10 games or so into the season was too soon.

Had McLaren stayed, Nottingham Forest would have been relegated by Christmas and become financially insolvent, Hooters would have burned down with the entire '79 Euro Cup winning team in it, the walls of the castle would have crumbled and destroyed the entire City centre whilst leaving the HMRC building miraculously unharmed, and a mass exodus of gash would have made Nottingham well known around the country for having a demographic ratio of five blokes to every bird.

And he'd still be grinning like a f**king buffoon.

FACT.

**Alf-Inge of Fudge** · 08-05-12, 14:17

Originally Posted by Psycho's Dragon

I just think 10 games is too soon in normal circumstances though you have made a strong argument that it was anything but normal.

Bit of a worn out cliche perhaps but there would be several successful managers who really messed up dressing room harmony and had terrible starts and went on to do great things.

The key thing is though he walked - so didn't want to be with the club anymore and that is different. Until he started to threaten to walk out I would've given him the chance despite everything else and maybe he would've turned it around.

Though as I said he does seem to have a knack of turning everything he touches to shit at the moment but I don't think you can say that is the case throughout his career.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there - the 'normality' of the situation. Most of the time new managers inherit a team on the slide or in disarray, whereas McClaren inherited a settled & happy one. I think that this definitely magnified any disruptions and contributed to the chaos.

That's not to say I don't think McClaren is any good, just that unlike Cotterill his poor decisions and actions couldn't be masked as easily by blame laying and excuses (although obv he did try with the board no. 1 scapegoats)

At least Twente are copping for it now and not us!

Originally Posted by Hurricane Fly

Had McLaren stayed, Nottingham Forest would have been relegated by Christmas and become financially insolvent, Hooters would have burned down with the entire '79 Euro Cup winning team in it, the walls of the castle would have crumbled and destroyed the entire City centre whilst leaving the HMRC building miraculously unharmed, and a mass exodus of gash would have made Nottingham well known around the country for having a demographic ratio of five blokes to every bird.

And he'd still be grinning like a f**king buffoon.

FACT.

'And I looked, and he opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake. And the sun became as black as sack cloth, and the moon became as blood. And the seas boiled and the skies fell.'

McClaren Day

**chriscl** · 08-05-12, 16:59

It wasn't just ten games though - he completely messed up an entire preseason, one which we started with no coaching staff, until he brought in a random collection of individuals, then we had the public embarrassment of the Wesley Verhoek saga, then the "big money" signings Miller, Greening and Derbyshire, upsetting the rest of what had been a very settled squad (one which finished 3rd and 6th in the previous two seasons).

When you think about it, I'm surprised it took ten games for his "reign" to be found out.

**Captain Sinister** · 09-05-12, 18:34

Other than the death of Nigel, all the rest of the terrible ills that have beset us this season have been down to the appointment of MacClaren - everything!

TheDude · 09-05-12, 18:43

The last bad pre-season we had relegated us. Unless there was another that didn't?

**T5 Tricky** · 09-05-12, 18:44

Keep.

I dont think Schteve is a bad coach. In my opinion, he was sold a duff vision by the board and the situation was greatly different once he got here to what he thought he was getting.

If he had to "trade" through it, I think he would have done. Fact is though, he didnt have to, so he walked.

**thehockleyhustler** · 09-05-12, 18:50

I still say Steve Mac is a far better all round manager than Cotterill.

**incapable hulk** · 09-05-12, 18:59

Originally Posted by thehockleyhustler

I still say Steve Mac is a far better all round manager than Cotterill.

There cant be any doubt about that surely?

McClaren, despite apparently being "terrible" has still won trophies, taken a team to a european final, managed england and in 3 of europes top divisions.

Cotterill, has almost relegated 3 teams from the second division, broken records at 2 clubs for longest streaks without a win, and been awful almost everywhere, but he did win the 4th division with a county side that cost more than the rest of the division combined.

**thehockleyhustler** · 09-05-12, 19:33

Originally Posted by incapable hulk

There cant be any doubt about that surely?

McClaren, despite apparently being "terrible" has still won trophies, taken a team to a european final, managed england and in 3 of europes top divisions.

Cotterill, has almost relegated 3 teams from the second division, broken records at 2 clubs for longest streaks without a win, and been awful almost everywhere, but he did win the 4th division with a county side that cost more than the rest of the division combined.

Yep, I'm in full agreement.

I think McClaren was given a hard time a lot of which wasn't his making.

**Raymondo Ponte'** · 09-05-12, 19:37

'And I looked, and he opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake. And the sun became as black as sack cloth, and the moon became as blood. And the seas boiled and the skies fell.'

McClaren Day

Good lad Alf

**Captain Sinister** · 09-05-12, 20:55

Doomed - we would have all been doomed.

**big jay** · 10-05-12, 06:47

Originally Posted by incapable hulk

There cant be any doubt about that surely?

McClaren, despite apparently being "terrible" has still won trophies, taken a team to a european final, managed england and in 3 of europes top divisions.

Cotterill, has almost relegated 3 teams from the second division, broken records at 2 clubs for longest streaks without a win, and been awful almost everywhere, but he did win the 4th division with a county side that cost more than the rest of the division combined.

total bollocks, how can you say Cotterill hasn't won trophies when he won the 2010 Edmonton cup with Pompey

**Alf-Inge of Fudge** · 10-05-12, 07:25

Originally Posted by Raymondo Ponte'

Good lad Alf

Originally Posted by Captain Sinister

Doomed - we would have all been doomed.

Looking back on McC's time here what amazes me the most is that he didn't attempt to address any of the major issues which were doing us down. Namely - 1) No leadership; 2) A lack of pace/zest/energy in the middle; 3) an absolute host of conundrums down the left; 4) the lack of protection for a dodgy defence. For the bad decisions Cotterill has made at least he's tackled most of those and successfully so.

With all these issues McClaren was still perusing a winger to make all the difference!

Personally I think he has a vision to turn a club into a Barcalona, but hasn't the absolute basic intelligence to realize that you can't really do that with the 90% of players available.