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  1. #801
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ngham-45240742

    Looks like G4S are still performing to their usual high standards. They won’t be allowed to run this prison for er er ... six months though so that will teach them. Put in a cheap tender, win contract, run in to the ground, tax payer sorts out problems, win tender again. Impressive work by them as usual


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  3. #802
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by GOBIAS View Post
    They have the contract to maintain the building I work out of. Basically you ring up and report a fault and it gets ranked as a certain priority. Depending on the priority there is a set service level agreement. Top priority is to be done within 24 hours and so on. Basically it is given a priority and then they do nothing whatsoever for months sometimes. There was a flood in the toilet not so long back and the carpet in the corridor near was saturated in water. A bloke turned up and left again. We never saw anyone again for about ten days. All the inner doors have electronic security passes but they are all buggered, have been for 3 months and they are all propped open which is a security and fire risk. They couldn't fix the car park barrier so they just came and took the barrier off I could go on and on..
    Just re read this. I was working last night and those security / fire doors are still propped open and the security barrier to the car park is still removed What a joke!! Must be a year now. I’m sure the SLA for something affecting security or health is 24 hours.


  4. #803
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Regarding the toilets too. They went again and flooded but because the toilets upstairs were being repaired we just had to paddle through and get on with it for a few days.


  5. #804
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by GOBIAS View Post
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ngham-45240742

    Looks like G4S are still performing to their usual high standards. They won’t be allowed to run this prison for er er ... six months though so that will teach them. Put in a cheap tender, win contract, run in to the ground, tax payer sorts out problems, win tender again. Impressive work by them as usual
    I agree Gobias, if a company gives poor service you strike them off the tender list. There are too many problems surrounding G4S in general, probably stemming from the fact that they are too big and inefficient.

    Should Prisons be under the control of private companies? If they do a good good at a justifiable price then yes, but if it becomes a monopolised taxpayer funded cash-cow then no.


  6. #805
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    G4S, aren't there some Tories and/or mates on thier board?

    "Ive only met Andy....last week actually and can confirm he is in 2nd place in sexiest fucker on here stakes." -Barry

  7. #806
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Mitie, Serco and G4S all have links to the tories via donations from board members through to close family members of senior tories


  8. #807
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aitor KarAndy! View Post
    G4S, aren't there some Tories and/or mates on thier board?
    Well G4S manage to cock up everything they turn their hand to so probably, yes


  9. #808
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by george lyall View Post
    Mitie, Serco and G4S all have links to the tories via donations from board members through to close family members of senior tories
    Mitie are another new one on me but they have won a tender to supply something in the area I work in the last year. Totally useless!!!


  10. #809
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Juif Rouge View Post
    I agree Gobias, if a company gives poor service you strike them off the tender list. There are too many problems surrounding G4S in general, probably stemming from the fact that they are too big and inefficient.

    Should Prisons be under the control of private companies? If they do a good good at a justifiable price then yes, but if it becomes a monopolised taxpayer funded cash-cow then no.
    You get the impression companies as big as G4S provide so much that the government now rely on them so we are in a position where they actually hold the cards.


  11. #810
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by GOBIAS View Post
    You get the impression companies as big as G4S provide so much that the government now rely on them so we are in a position where they actually hold the cards.
    They do.

    The simple fact is is that it's a lot easier to run a tender process than deliver the service yourself. The civil service don't have the capacity to bring it in house and any change of strategy to make it so requires years of advance planning, tax changes etc to fund it.

    It's not just a money consideration either, by running a tender you're also handing over risk to the supplier. Risk of litigation, risk of currency movements if elements of the business aren't in GBP etc.

    Outsourcing would be fine if the contracts are watertight. If the supplier fucks up, they should be held to account rather than just let off the hook. In private > private supplier/customer models then if a supplier fucks up, or wants to end the contract early as they've miscalculated profits, then they will pay for the pleasure.

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  12. #811
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Of course Companies like these in many areas sub contract multiple times Carrilion did it in the MOD. The MOD logistics chain was tendered and an American consortium won it they have no expertise in this area so sub contracted it to 3 seperate transport firms. Clearly all these companies are raking in a pretty profit for shareholders if the tender was truly competitive surely ther should only be enough profit for one company.


  13. #812
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by george lyall View Post
    Of course Companies like these in many areas sub contract multiple times Carrilion did it in the MOD. The MOD logistics chain was tendered and an American consortium won it they have no expertise in this area so sub contracted it to 3 seperate transport firms. Clearly all these companies are raking in a pretty profit for shareholders if the tender was truly competitive surely ther should only be enough profit for one company.
    Not how the public sector works though. They have defined costs built in to most contracts, so for example there is a defined cost for laying a mile of new road or installing a traffic light.

    Therefore there is always an amount of room to subcontract work out down the chain.

    I lost out to the tune of over £200k when Carillion went tits up. I didn't have a direct contract with Carillion, in fact it turned out I was fourth in the line, but everyone else further up the chain had already taken their cut before me, yet the person actually doing the work got shafted.

    It'll end up costing me half of what's owed to get my money back, I can afford this, many can't, then once again the big boys win the contract, pass it down the line and the same merry go round starts again.

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  14. #813
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Surely the lesson from the failures of G4S and Carillion is that there are just some things which are not (or should not be) designed to make a financial profit.

    A prison, for example, can only make someone a profit through cost cutting. If we think of rehabilitation and education as two of the aims of prison, then that cost cutting is likely to result in a reduction in the effectiveness of its rehabilitation programme. Initially, we may see a reduction in costs associated with running the prison, but longer-term the costs to policing, courts and the community caused by a rise in crime will greatly outweigh the short-term benefit.

    One of the things which makes me despair of this country is the way in which everything is measured by its cost, rather than by the potential benefit. I find that such a short-term and negative view of the world.


  15. #814
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanR View Post
    Surely the lesson from the failures of G4S and Carillion is that there are just some things which are not (or should not be) designed to make a financial profit.

    A prison, for example, can only make someone a profit through cost cutting. If we think of rehabilitation and education as two of the aims of prison, then that cost cutting is likely to result in a reduction in the effectiveness of its rehabilitation programme. Initially, we may see a reduction in costs associated with running the prison, but longer-term the costs to policing, courts and the community caused by a rise in crime will greatly outweigh the short-term benefit.

    One of the things which makes me despair of this country is the way in which everything is measured by its cost, rather than by the potential benefit. I find that such a short-term and negative view of the world.
    Welcome to the short-termism corporate world of the West.

    Most large-cap companies run on a 3-month plan around financial reports to the markets, it's crazy around June/December at the end of the halves when clearly stupid business decisions are taken in order to meet the promises made six months prior, despite the fact that it'll leave the company in a worse position the next month.

    Share price is king.


  16. #815
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    Welcome to the short-termism corporate world of the West.

    Most large-cap companies run on a 3-month plan around financial reports to the markets, it's crazy around June/December at the end of the halves when clearly stupid business decisions are taken in order to meet the promises made six months prior, despite the fact that it'll leave the company in a worse position the next month.

    Share price is king.
    No doubt it looked great on the G4S books to have Birmingham prison as a customer, but I can't believe that the alarm bells don't sound or that no one thinks 'if the government can't run a profit out of this, how can we?' Instead the can is kicked down the road for someone else to sort out.

    Working in a small business we have to be very careful about the work we pitch for and take on, but having worked in larger organisations it's not difficult to understand why these poor decisions are made, as the disconnect between the decision-makers and the poor sods who have to do the work is often immense.


  17. #816
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    Welcome to the short-termism corporate world of the West.

    Most large-cap companies run on a 3-month plan around financial reports to the markets, it's crazy around June/December at the end of the halves when clearly stupid business decisions are taken in order to meet the promises made six months prior, despite the fact that it'll leave the company in a worse position the next month.

    Share price is king.
    This.

    I work for a private company and the difference is night and day.
    We still have targets to make and to report to the board - but if we’re behind, then there’s no panic just to keep the share price good. Decisions are made on long term benefits.


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  18. #817
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by GOBIAS View Post
    You get the impression companies as big as G4S provide so much that the government now rely on them so we are in a position where they actually hold the cards.
    It has been that way for many years with the big multinationals, Cars, Food, IT, Finance etc the big boys can generally do what they like because of the amount of people they employ and the lack of real competition.


  19. #818
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    Welcome to the short-termism corporate world of the West.

    Most large-cap companies run on a 3-month plan around financial reports to the markets, it's crazy around June/December at the end of the halves when clearly stupid business decisions are taken in order to meet the promises made six months prior, despite the fact that it'll leave the company in a worse position the next month.

    Share price is king.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aitor Aitor A Puddycat View Post
    This.

    I work for a private company and the difference is night and day.
    We still have targets to make and to report to the board - but if we’re behind, then there’s no panic just to keep the share price good. Decisions are made on long term benefits.
    This, in spades.

    The Large German Conglomerate is privately held and always has been; our founder‘s will divested his ownership to a charitable trust, 93% of the shares are owned by the trust (the Robert Bosch Stiftung) and the remainder (apart from 0,5%) are owned by the Bosch family.

    The Stiftung uses it’s share of the profits for charitable and philanthropic causes (millions of Euros given away each year) but the structure allows our Geschäftsführen (Board of Management, who Control the remaining 0,5%) to plan long term projects and investment on a scale that a publicly owned company beholden to Institutional Shareholders would never be able to do.

    We have several levels of project planning, some of which aren’t projected to turn a profit, or be commercially relevant, for ten years (one example is the €1Bn investment in our new wafer fab in Dresden).

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

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  20. #819
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48288433

    Well that went well then. I’d love to see the pictures Chris Grayling has locked away, trail of incompetence and chaos left behind him but still a minister, still as arrogant and deluded as ever.

    Last edited by GOBIAS; 16-05-19 at 05:56.

  21. #820
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    2 interviews this morning on BBC Breakfast were very telling.
    The first with the David Gauke concerned the re-privatisation of the parole service.
    Gauke simply refused to address the Grayling Factor, and also to acknowledge that 5 years ago Grayling was told by nearly all experts his privatisation wouldn't, couldn't work.
    He even made the ludicrous statement that "no-one could forsee at the time how circumstances would change".
    But every fjuckin' expert foresaw it and bloody well said so!
    So, the Tory Government is now in such tatters and disarray that it is certainly unfit to govern.
    However the the second interview was with the female Labour MP with thinning, lang blonde hair, arched pencilled eyebrows and a tiny, tight lipped gob.
    She was discussing Labour's policy to be announced today about privatising the energy suply market.
    When asked whether it would cost the tax-payer £100 billion as stated by the Tories, she said "I don't recognise that number", but when asked what Labour's assessment of the cost was, she said it would cost the tax-payer nothing...
    This proves that Labour are also not fit to govern either.
    Who knows what the fjuck we should do?
    We are in a complete shambles and there is little or no prospect of anyone emerging in the forseeable future who can get us back on the right track.
    Wither too now Britain?


  22. #821
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Sinister View Post
    Who knows what the fjuck we should do?
    We are in a complete shambles and there is little or no prospect of anyone emerging in the forseeable future who can get us back on the right track.
    Wither too now Britain?
    The future is Lib Dems.


  23. #822
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    The problem is Captain there is no best solution to public services. Privatisation and Nationalisation both lead to inefficiency and decay, because either way they are monopolies.

    Added to that you now have both mainstream parties in chaos because the chickens are coming home to roost on years of self-serving career politics, where both traditional Labour and Tories voters feel let down by Westminster.

    It is no different in France hence the GJ protests, which have only died down a bit since the Far Right and Islamicists hijacked them, but the anger with Paris and the EU is still there and growing.


  24. #823
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    If only there were a country in Europe with a lengthy, post-WWII tradition of stable government based on proportional representation, and prioritising things like the preservation of workers‘ rights, the promotion of exports for economic benefit and the boosting of domestic manufacturing through investment in research and development, for others to take a lead from?


  25. #824
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    If only there were a country in Europe with a lengthy, post-WWII tradition of stable government based on proportional representation, and prioritising things like the preservation of workers‘ rights, the promotion of exports for economic benefit and the boosting of domestic manufacturing through investment in research and development, for others to take a lead from?
    If only that country hadn't started WW2 they would be in a much stronger position now. Just look at the German talent you either murdered or chased from your shores? Some of the leading names of the 20thC dead or fled.


  26. #825
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    If only there were a country in Europe with a lengthy, post-WWII tradition of stable government based on proportional representation, and prioritising things like the preservation of workers‘ rights, the promotion of exports for economic benefit and the boosting of domestic manufacturing through investment in research and development, for others to take a lead from?
    It would be even better if they had a centrist figure head - as do all healthy, happy European economies...


 

 

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