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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnits

    The cause of the delay wasn't, but the Indian call centre and contingency planning to get their passengers where they need to be is their responsibility.

    I doubt it would've been a smooth experience under a nationalised system either, though. Although at least Andy could've shouted at an English person
    People never assume that benefits are down to a system they dislike, they only accept the flaws. Anything that is preventative or measured against a theory is dismissed. It's like anti terrorism, people don't talk about anything it may be doing well, just how it negatively affects them.

    I can't tell you how the telecoms industry would have developed if it was state owned, but I can tell you that a defined benefit of privatisation is infrastructure improvements and pricing competition. That we see both in the telecoms industry is being ignored in favour of debates that suit certain ends.

    A quick google of privatisation will give you the theory of its pros and cons, it seems some people only get as far as the cons.

    Talk to me, Goose.

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnits

    The cause of the delay wasn't, but the Indian call centre and contingency planning to get their passengers where they need to be is their responsibility.

    I doubt it would've been a smooth experience under a nationalised system either, though. Although at least Andy could've shouted at an English person
    Do you think a nationalised industry wouldn't offshore it's out of hours communications? How much government money would be spent on paying someone to work at midnight on the end of a phone line?


  4. #53
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Do you think a nationalised industry wouldn't offshore it's out of hours communications? How much government money would be spent on paying someone to work at midnight on the end of a phone line?
    Doubt they would, MPs would get fed up of all the racist email they'd keep receiving .

    "British 'obs fer British 'erkers."


  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeAreNottingham

    Doubt they would, MPs would get fed up of all the racist email they'd keep receiving .

    "British 'obs fer British 'erkers."
    Not having to deal with pissed off consumers is a benefit of privatisation!


  6. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    I can't tell you how the telecoms industry would have developed if it was state owned, but I can tell you that a defined benefit of privatisation is infrastructure improvements and pricing competition. That we see both in the telecoms industry is being ignored in favour of debates that suit certain ends. .
    I do know something about the telecoms industry (comes from working in IT).

    It was an open secret that the (nationalised) British Telecom were prepared to invest in a national fibre network, what they wanted in return was a Government commitment to give them exclusivity for a stated period (20 years, if you believe the gossip at the time) during which no outside provider would be allowed to compete.

    The then-Conservative government rejected this, and it led to the privatisation of BT, an open market, but a comms market that only encouraged other companies to cherry pick profitable areas, and neglect unprofitable ones.

    If you ever visit Japan or South Korea, both countries have fantastic local comms networks, with cheap and fast broadband available to anyone.

    Both those countries efforts were significantly supported by their respective governments.

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

    — Joe Strummer

  7. #56
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    So the nationalised telecoms industry didn't get the infrastructure improvements that would develop it and cement it's monopoly?

    This is kind of the point, investment from a government needed to reap a benefit that wasn't monetary. A such, if a nationalised service is adequate, it won't be developed, as the distribution of funds would go into industries that aren't adequate.


  8. #57
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Not having to deal with pissed off consumers is a benefit of privatisation!
    Well it's the main benefit to MPs, suspect it the real reason for the privatisation agenda. Politicians are fed up of having to deal with people, cabinet minister want to run the country and invade nations. Not deal with old Mrs Dorris who has a dicky hip.

    edit: rich; without that backing from Governments the infrastructure just isn't built. Just look where out internet infrastructure is - it's pathetic for a nation as wealthy and compact as the UK is. I can't think of any major infrastructure in any country that was built by private industry as they saw it as a profit making venture. It is also state backed projects that really revolutionise how countries run fundamentally.

    Last edited by WeAreNottingham; 03-03-12 at 17:24.

  9. #58
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by WeAreNottingham View Post
    Well it's the main benefit to MPs, suspect it the real reason for the privatisation agenda. Politicians are fed up of having to deal with people, cabinet minister want to run the country and invade nations. Not deal with old Mrs Dorris who has a dicky hip.
    I don't think ministers deal directly with Mrs Dorris.

    They do, however, deal with protesters, unions, and legislation that prevents them from sacking people who are poor at their jobs leading them to be promoted out of their jobs ensuring a concentration of poor employees at the top. Councils are renowned for promoting people out of positions and being ridiculously ineffective due to a militant workforce.


  10. #59
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Councils are renowned for promoting people out of positions and being ridiculously ineffective due to a militant workforce.
    Says who?


  11. #60
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    It's more anecdotal than definitive.


  12. #61
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    And who is the biggest influence of anecdotal evidence?


  13. #62
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    People who work for councils?

    Kind of off the point, really, and you seem to just want to pick some form of argument with me which I'm not keen on rising to.


  14. #63
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Come off it Rich, not trying to pick an argument. The whole point of the thread is to discuss private v public running of business. Just pointing out you can't stand your viewpoint on anecdotal evidence, especially when the source of said evidence is biased.


  15. #64
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    I didn't stand anything on anecdotal evidence, it was an off the cuff remark.

    My point in this has been that there are benefits to privatisation that people were ignoring, and in some cases trying to pin the results on an 'it would happen anyway' argument.

    I think every industry should be looked at and judged on it's own merits as to whether it should be national or private, some people seem to think privatisation is the devil.


  16. #65
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscl View Post
    I do know something about the telecoms industry (comes from working in IT).

    It was an open secret that the (nationalised) British Telecom were prepared to invest in a national fibre network, what they wanted in return was a Government commitment to give them exclusivity for a stated period (20 years, if you believe the gossip at the time) during which no outside provider would be allowed to compete.

    The then-Conservative government rejected this, and it led to the privatisation of BT, an open market, but a comms market that only encouraged other companies to cherry pick profitable areas, and neglect unprofitable ones.

    If you ever visit Japan or South Korea, both countries have fantastic local comms networks, with cheap and fast broadband available to anyone.

    Both those countries efforts were significantly supported by their respective governments.
    Didn't the Government wholly fund Diamond Cable, which put the cable/fibre network in to the UK, then went "bust", and got sold for pennies to NTL, and is now Virgin Media?

    By "relegation battle", do you mean 7th, 12th or 14th?

    Quote Originally Posted by willojack View Post
    flagman do me a f***ing favour remove me from this forum

  17. #66
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flagman View Post
    Didn't the Government wholly fund Diamond Cable, which put the cable/fibre network in to the UK, then went "bust", and got sold for pennies to NTL, and is now Virgin Media?
    No.

    Actually, I'll expand.

    Diamond were a company that only operated in a few territories, including both Nottingham and Grimsby. They weren't, for example, active in Newcastle where Telewest were prevalent, nor were they working in Hull where Kingston Communication operates.

    The shift from local-NTL-Virgin happened over time, but you're backwards engineering a link between what was local to Nottingham at one time and what is a national service now.

    Last edited by Rich; 03-03-12 at 18:21.

  18. #67
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Sure?


  19. #68
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Yep.

    Took a keen interest when NTL tried to buy the Premier League rights in the most inventive way ever.

    Diamond didn't operate nationally, and as such didn't lay fibre cables around the country, they only worked in their own territory. Telewest (who merged with NTL) laid the cables in Newcastle, for example, and Kingston Communications definitely laid them in Hull.


  20. #69
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Hull is & was a separate entity, but:

    Where did Diamond get their £££ from?


  21. #70
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Either way, the increase in infrastructure was down to private companies, as it the ability to negotiate your deals.


  22. #71
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flagman View Post
    Hull is & was a separate entity, but:

    Where did Diamond get their £££ from?
    Private equity

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...d-1407932.html


  23. #72
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Interesting. Did they in fact go bust then, before the NTL takeover?


  24. #73
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Cable was available in a town smaller than the one I live in but only about 4 miles away 20 odd years ago. It's still not available here.
    Whoever is running Virgin/NTL/Diamond Cable - it's a massive failure from where I'm sitting.


  25. #74
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flagman View Post
    Interesting. Did they in fact go bust then, before the NTL takeover?
    Can't see any notice of bankruptcy on Companies House. Can see their dissolution of their territory franchises, but to be honest I'm not interested enough to pay the pound to find out.


  26. #75
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    Default Re: Privatise everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flagman View Post
    Interesting. Did they in fact go bust then, before the NTL takeover?
    It's looking like a no

    http://www.alacrastore.com/deal-snap...cations-101513


 

 

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