Alan Hansen

[winnits]

I prefer the Levellers to the Diggers. Ah, bit of political movement humour there.

[LTLF Sponsors]

[smithy]

I think JCB are racist anyway, they do have black in their logo, and 'excavate', surely they are reminding blacks of years of slavery, I just cant believe they are allowed to get away with it.

Man wouldnt be happy blud. Pop goes the engine..

[Flagman]

Don't they have a spade on the front doing all the hard work?

[smithy]

Don't they have a spade on the front doing all the hard work?

Yes they do, bet if a big spade cut a flue wrong they wouldnt of got left on a roof!

[adam09]

Don't they have a spade on the front doing all the hard work?

No, they're Anglo-Polish

[smithy]

ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS"
- George Orwell

[Andy!]

What is the PC term for people with a darker skin tone?

[smithy]

What is the PC term for people with a darker skin tone?

T'Other ones

[smithy]

What is the PC term for people with a darker skin tone?

Actually maybe there should be a list of what we could use then there would be no problems.

[Andy!]

Them lot?

[TheDude]

Criminals

[Desybozared]

It's embarrassingly outdated, but I wouldn't have put the word 'coloured' in the offensive category. Oh well, I've learnt something new.

Bloody PC brigade, they'll be banning poppies in the Body Shop next.

[Huxley]

Old man says something clumsy, the nation chuckles, later issues appropriate apologies. All is dandy.

[sedgred]

I'm honestly not on a Segd-like wind up here, but what has he done wrong?
I don't like him, but is calling people "coloured" not the done thing now?

I am going to have to be very careful what I say at this rate, cos I haven't got a fucking clue what's right and what isn't any more.

As if I would stir this one !

Seriously.

I have refered to oppositions coloured players on match threads without any of our Pc Brigade picking me up. If I have not known the name of the player, it was easy as an example to refer to.......'' The coloured lad at right back had a good game '' etc...how on earth could that be racist ?. PC is a huge minefield, at my age the friendship between Noddy and Big Ears had no homosexual overtones what so ever !.

I can honestly remember in primary school, a range of books, I have no knowledge or recollection how large the range of stories, about a little coloured/black child who lived on an island in the sun called '' Little Black Sambo ''. Now that today is offensive, hence the books I would imagine long consigned to the dustbin. But I would have thought coloured far more polite than black...don't know why just seems so.

[winnits]

As ever, words themselves hold no real power - just the meaning and intent attached to them when uttered. When Hansen said 'coloured' he clearly meant no offence, regardless of whether the term may have less savoury connotations for some. He's apologised - not for being wrong, but for any offence he's caused. The right thing to do, job's a good 'un, everyone moves on!

[Rich]

I've always thought of coloured as at least an outdated term, bordering on racist. It's one of those things that I've always thought of as a bit cringeworthy.

Different generations, I suppose, but when someone is on TV they should be at least aware of what is and isn't acceptable. There's a world of difference between a building site and a tv studio.

[sedgred]

After posting about '' Little Black Sambo '', I googled and checked that my memory was not playing me wrong.........It was as stated a series of childrens books produced in the fifties/early sixties. But other links on the Googled results lead to several articles on how classic childrens books are '' Secretly Racist '', the world seems to have gone mad !

[sedgred]

I've always thought of coloured as at least an outdated term, bordering on racist. It's one of those things that I've always thought of as a bit cringeworthy.

Different generations, I suppose, but when someone is on TV they should be at least aware of what is and isn't acceptable. There's a world of difference between a building site and a tv studio.

.

Honestly Rich, I have never thought that expression anything other than a polite description of skin tone !

[Rich]

It's a generational thing. As I said earlier, Chris chastised me not too long ago for using the term 'black', and when I asked what he thought I should say he said 'coloured'.

He was as shocked as you are that it's now a properly outdated term.

Like Al says, though, it's context more than the words - which is a debate I had not too long ago with Rambo who didn't see it quite that way.

[Alex]

After posting about '' Little Black Sambo '', I googled and checked that my memory was not playing me wrong.........It was as stated a series of childrens books produced in the fifties/early sixties. But other links on the Googled results lead to several articles on how classic childrens books are '' Secretly Racist '', the world seems to have gone mad !

Some of the stuff in Enid Blyton is pretty shocking, there's one story called The Little Black Doll (who Wanted to be Pink) and then there's all that stuff about the Golliwogs

Don't see why it's hard to believe a woman born in 1897, though undoubtedly a great author and whose books I grew up with, could have some unworthy views. It wasn't a more innocent time, it was just a more racist time.

[winnits]

I think you can retrofit a certain degree of innocence - it was a less well-informed time, with limited exposure to different ethnicities and limited information beyond received wisdom that such folk were either primitive or suitable only for servitude or - worse - slavery. I've no idea what Enid Blyton's background was, but I doubt it was one that was likely to give her the opportunity to form a balanced view on such things.

[Alex]

I think you can retrofit a certain degree of innocence - it was a less well-informed time, with limited exposure to different ethnicities and limited information beyond received wisdom that such folk were either primitive or suitable only for servitude or - worse - slavery. I've no idea what Enid Blyton's background was, but I doubt it was one that was likely to give her the opportunity to form a balanced view on such things.

But that's a definition of racism, isn't it? Thinking other races are inferior? Blyton was a teacher before her writing career and in her books there's certainly a theme of imparting wisdom and morals on to her readers. A lot of them are good values, but some are abhorent ones. Whether she wrote those books because she had never met a black person and didn't know any better is irrelevent - the content is offensively racist, which makes the books themselves racist and the author too, and she was part of a cycle of prejudice. I think its possible to accept that without losing sight of her talent as a writer, just as it's possible to admit that Shakespeare was a bit of a sexist pig but still enjoy the comedy of The Taming of the Shrew, but to make excuses for it and call the crimes of former times 'innocent' is wrong.

[congo_red]

the content is offensively racist, which makes the books themselves racist and the author too, and she was part of a cycle of prejudice. I think its possible to accept that without losing sight of her talent as a writer, just as it's possible to admit that Shakespeare was a bit of a sexist pig but still enjoy the comedy of The Taming of the Shrew, but to make excuses for it and call the crimes of former times 'innocent' is wrong.

Which, of course begs the question, if her books contain racist content, should we allow such views to be freely distributed, particulalrly when they will be read by young impressionable minds?

I' not suggesting we ban them, just posing a difficult question, which, in a time where anyone expressing racist views through mainstream media are quickly censured, have we actually created a double standard?

[winnits]

I said a degree of innocence. If you want to go down this path then we're all complicit in our negligence of the scandalously disproportionate distribution of the world's resources, when in reality it's something we compartmentalise as 'the way things are' and accept the not unreasonable premise that we aren't really able to change it from our position. I didn't suggest the examples you give weren't racist, just that there are some mitigating circumstances - to deny it would be like castigating a child for not being able to do their times tables when they haven't been taught them yet.

[Alex]

Which, of course begs the question, if her books contain racist content, should we allow such views to be freely distributed, particulalrly when they will be read by young impressionable minds?

I' not suggesting we ban them, just posing a difficult question, which, in a time where anyone expressing racist views through mainstream media are quickly censured, have we actually created a double standard?

My view is that if the books are made available to children, they should be taught as an example of historic prejudice. If anyone thinks giving a child a golliwog book to read or doll to play with is appropriate they are seriously lacking in mental faculty (or they want their child to grow up to be as prejudiced as they are). On the other hand, the books do serve a useful purpose in showing how far we've come in the last 100 years.

I said a degree of innocence. If you want to go down this path then we're all complicit in our negligence of the scandalously disproportionate distribution of the world's resources, when in reality it's something we compartmentalise as 'the way things are' and accept the not unreasonable premise that we aren't really able to change it from our position. I didn't suggest the examples you give weren't racist, just that there are some mitigating circumstances - to deny it would be like castigating a child for not being able to do their times tables when they haven't been taught them yet.

Well that was a depressing paragraph!

I agree with you in that I suppose we are complicit in many of the world's injustices, but we're not all writing books re-enforcing that status quo and giving them to kids as Blyon did. By many accounts she was a nasty, controlling woman anyway and I can't help but think there was some mendacious intent in writing those books.