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Thread: NFFC Official Accounts.

      
  1. #1
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    Default NFFC Official Accounts.

    Nottingham Forest's annual accounts are now available showing a total loss of £11.4m for the year ended 31 May 2011.
    This compared to a loss of £12.3m for the previous financial year.
    Finance Director John Pelling will provide a detailed commentary and analysis of the accounts in the club's programme for the Peterborough game on Boxing Day.
    Ahead of that detailed analysis, he said: "Trading wise, these results for year ended 31 May 2011 are very similar to those reported in the year ended 31 May 2010.
    "Wages continued to represent over 100% of turnover (109% in 10/11, 106% in 09/10).
    "This is a matter for the club to address; both in terms of growing revenue and seeking to control costs in the future.
    "The loss reported could only have been incurred with the continuing support of Nigel Doughty who last year injected £11.4m of cash into the club and took the amount owed by the club to him up to £75.6m.
    "As fans know, Mr Doughty left the club as Chairman in October 2011, subsequent to the reporting date for these accounts, but he has committed to providing the club with funding to support the commitments to players made up to that time which effectively leaves the club with funding in place until May 2014.
    "Last year saw the final £1m balance owed to Nottingham City Council on the Trend End development finally paid off and Mr Doughty is now the sole secured creditor of the club.
    "As a result of repaying this debt the club has secured a 50 year lease over the land that The City Ground sits on."
    Highlights of the Club Accounts, which can be downloaded by clicking here, include:
    • Turnover rose 3% to £15.2m with the largest rise being seen in TV, radio and internet income driven by enhanced 'solidarity payments' paid by Premier League clubs to Championship clubs. Gate revenue remained static at £7.0m.
    • Staff costs increased 6% to £16.6m mainly reflecting the full year cost of players bought in summer 2009.
    • The operating loss reduced by 2% to £10.8m. When this is combined with a £1m profit on disposal of players (principally Perch) and £1.6m of interest charged (but not paid) on loans from Nigel Doughty the total loss for the year of £11.4m compared to £12.3m in the previous accounting year.
    • The club's balance sheet continues to be dominated by the amount owed to Nigel Doughty which at 31 May 2011 stands at £75.6m. This balance grew by £11.4m of funding received from Mr Doughty in the year and comprises £64.2m of cash injected plus £11.4m of accumulated (unpaid) interest. Mr Doughty's continued financial support is critical to the club obtaining an unqualified audit report with respect to its capacity to continue as a going concern.

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Will only get worse on next year accounts.

    Compensation paid out to Billy's and his staff, the transfer fees of Miller, Derbyshire and Greening plus their wages (and Reid, Boateng etc), reduced gate receipt due to poor performance on the pitch...

    Ho hum. Hello FFP.

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  4. #3
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Anybody know how much ND has actually put in without all the interest added?


  5. #4
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    £75.6m is a figure I've seen on twitter, no idea if it's true.

    *that's on the site so that will not be what you mean.

    Last edited by TheDude; 07-12-11 at 13:56.

  6. #5
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    The club's balance sheet continues to be dominated by the amount owed to Nigel Doughty which at 31 May 2011 stands at £75.6m. This balance grew by £11.4m of funding received from Mr Doughty in the year and comprises £64.2m of cash injected plus £11.4m of accumulated (unpaid) interest. Mr Doughty's continued financial support is critical to the club obtaining an unqualified audit report with respect to its capacity to continue as a going concern.


  7. #6
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    So owns Nottingham Forest, who owes Nigel Doughty £75.6 million?


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    Quote Originally Posted by gedlingred View Post
    So owns Nottingham Forest, who owes Nigel Doughty £75.6 million?
    In effect, the limited company itself, as it is that vehicle in to which Mr. Doughty has "invested" money.

    The interesting point for me is the 50-year new lease; looks like we won't be leaving the City Ground any time soon.

    Of course, having that security of tenure is a very valuable "asset" of one were to contemplate selling the business.

    I wonder...

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuc View Post
    Anybody know how much ND has actually put in without all the interest added?
    Shouldn't be too tricky to work out.

    I'm seeing £76.4m as the cummulated operating losses excluding interest since 99.

    I'm not including the value for FY11 as I don't have the KPMG reports.

    Interestingly, the interest, on paper, is netted out by the couple of times we've been in profit.

    Either way, it's kind of irrelevant given that he has said it is not repayable.

    Talk to me, Goose.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Shouldn't be too tricky to work out.

    I'm seeing £76.4m as the cummulated operating losses excluding interest since 99.

    I'm not including the value for FY11 as I don't have the KPMG reports.

    Interestingly, the interest, on paper, is netted out by the couple of times we've been in profit.

    Either way, it's kind of irrelevant given that he has said it is not repayable.
    He did say it's not repayable BUT the accounts state it is due to be settled may 2014


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    Quote Originally Posted by stuc View Post
    He did say it's not repayable BUT the accounts state it is due to be settled may 2014
    I think from memory the accounts always (and have to, for legal reasons) state a settlement date.

    All Mr. Doughty has done in the past is push the date forwards twelve months each time.

    Or at least that's what he's done up until now...


  12. #11
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    We should go in to admin, strip the squad bare and start again with ian Woan and Mark Crossley in charge.

    £10 a ticket and dancers at half time. Buy a programme get 30% off a plate of chicken wings in Hooters.

    Call me CEO


  13. #12
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Will Doughty want to recover any of his loan or interest if he sells the club?


  14. #13
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Indeed, last years have the date as 31 May 2013.


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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Okay just noticed it answers my question on the forest site.

    the amount owed to Nigel Doughty which at 31 May 2011 stands at £75.6m. £64.2m of cash injected plus £11.4m of accumulated interest.



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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by gedlingred View Post
    Will Doughty want to recover any of his loan or interest if he sells the club?
    He's always said not. No reason to think otherwise really. (Thankfully.)


  17. #16
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Indeed, last years have the date as 31 May 2013.
    I assume that when FFP comes in this will need to be removed from the accounts?


  18. #17
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tutts View Post
    He's always said not. No reason to think otherwise really. (Thankfully.)
    But if you have no intention of claiming it back why charge interest on it?


  19. #18
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Peters View Post
    We should go in to admin, strip the squad bare and start again with ian Woan and Mark Crossley in charge.

    £10 a ticket and dancers at half time. Buy a programme get 30% off a plate of chicken wings in Hooters.

    Call me CEO
    We can't go into administration when the debt is to the owner, or at least there would be no feasible point. Doughty would be the payer and the payee, while the business would survive due to it's Ltd status, Doughty would essentially just be writing off what he owes himself with the added benefit of relegating us.

    Quote Originally Posted by gedlingred View Post
    Will Doughty want to recover any of his loan or interest if he sells the club?
    No. He's been quite emphatic about this. He has said he looks at the money as community investment. If the club is sold the debt will probably be retained on the balance sheet or settled for £1 or something.

    It's unlikely he will sell the club, anyway, for two reasons. Firstly, he won't sell to a consortium, he will only sell to someone with intentions as good as his own. For anything you may say about him, his intentions have always been pure. Secondly, with FFP coming in the buying of a football club, let alone a loss making one, is not an attractive proposition anymore. There are no longer billionaires waiting to buy theirway to money laundering glory.


  20. #19
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuc View Post
    I assume that when FFP comes in this will need to be removed from the accounts?
    From the obscure rules I can find, FFP is concerned with annual figures, not balance sheets, so there's no reason to think that it would need to be removed.

    We can still operate at a paper loss historically, while breaking even on the costs/revenues ratio.

    This would be pretty tax efficient, actually, as I think we'd be able to utilise our previous losses to offset our corporation tax liability.


  21. #20
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuc View Post
    But if you have no intention of claiming it back why charge interest on it?
    And why lend money to yourself?

    Isn't that just called spending.


  22. #21
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuc View Post
    But if you have no intention of claiming it back why charge interest on it?
    Interest has to be charged on money that isn't a gift.

    If he was buying portions of the club, the club would be taxed. As it's a loan it needs to be charged interest for its classifications.

    It's also worth pointing out that a business can make interest payments tax deductible.


  23. #22
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    Default

    I have next to no knowledge on accounts, but is it not a loan due to tax reasons, so officially he has to say he's claiming it back off the club even though hopefully he won't?

    Edit: Rich just answered my question^^


  24. #23
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by gedlingred View Post
    And why lend money to yourself?

    Isn't that just called spending.
    It's not to himself, it's to a limited business.

    It's limited so as to protect his own liability.

    Investing money into a limited business can be tricky - if you just put it in then it's a gift and becomes taxable revenue for the business. If he invests it, he needs to receive a physical part of the business in return for that, which is tricky as he owns the limited company. Loaning it enables him to use the interest payments, and indeed the overall cash position, in a very tax efficient way for Nottingham Forest.

    To put it another way, if he'd given us as much as he's loaned us, we would only have had half the money to waste spend on players.

    It's quite a tired old debate, though. Please don't think I'm being short with you, but I've had this debate no end of times with people and it does get a bit tiresome.

    It might be worth just looking at the jobs of people who aren't concerned by it. Tutts and I both work in finance.


  25. #24
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post

    Tutts and I both work in finance.
    Never mind. Someone has to do it.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: NFFC Official Accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by gedlingred View Post
    Never mind. Someone has to do it.
    Keeps the wolves from the door.

    But yes, that's the crux of it. Many of our clients make loans to business's that their children have set up but they're all on the books as Loans.


 

 

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