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Thread: Financial Fair Play and Forest

      
  1. #1
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    Default Financial Fair Play and Forest

    I've not seen a thread about this so I'd thought I'd put down my thoughts...

    I think these rules are going to have a huge effect on the championship and on forest and the importance has not really been highlighted by the media.

    For a start you can only have €45m debt over the first 3 years from 2012 and after that £0. We already have £60m (to doughty). In order to meet this criteria we're either going to have to start making a serious profit in the next 4 years (unlikely, even with promotion) or ND is going to have to write off his loans.

    We currently spend 107% of our turnover on wages, this will have to reduce significantly from next season so we must take this into consideration in the current 2-3 year deals being handed out. At the end of the first 3 year period from 2012 we have to be breaking even. In theory this means reducing spending by the £5-7m a year that ND puts in so that everything fits in the 100% of turnover, however in the first 3 years the owner is allowed to gift (not loan) money to the club to clear existing debts and help ease the transition slightly. As I understand it all existing debt must be cleared after the first 6 years, though I could be wrong as I don't see how a club with large external debts and without wealthy owners, like, say, derby or cardiff, is going to clear down it's long term debt in just six years.

    Not all spending counts in uefa's calculations however. Significantly for forest spending on youth development doesn't count nor does spending on facilites, including building new stadia. This should put us at a relative advantage as we spend far more than any other champ club does on the academy.

    The most obvious place to make reductions is in the playing wage bill. It's by far the biggest single cost to any club and they are all desperate to reduce their wage bills. Short of a wage cap this is the best thing that could have happened for the clubs and all clubs will be using this as a very big stick in wage negotiations. A lot of players are going to get a shock when contract time comes round again.

    MA is criticising Leicester I think because the massive wage deals they are handing out pretty much guarantee that they won't be able to meet these regulations (I imagine that they were the one club who voted against the rules). Of course this assumes that the thai's actually intend to honour those contracts...

    Personally I think the introduction of these rules will be a godsend for the championship. In practical terms it means all the clubs get to reduce their wage bills in unison (at least that's what they're hoping will happen). Parachute payments might twist it a little but so far they actually seem to have had little effect.

    In the prem however it's only going to strengthen the already obvious divide between the CL and non-CL clubs. UEFA is handing out so much money to the CL clubs that it just won't be possible for anyone to close the gap. Only the likes of man city and spurs have a chance at the moment by injecting massive amounts of cash and that just won't be possible under these rules. It will however level the playing field in the rest of the league, which won't be bad thing for Forest if we get there. Our matchday and commercial income is already higher than the wigans and west broms of this world.

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    in theory these rules will be good for the game - but in reality sides like leicester and man city will find ways around the rules, so it will end up making no difference what-so-ever...


  4. #3

    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    Getting round the rules is one thing, making the best of having done so is quite another.

    The gap between the rich clubs and the rest of us will remain for a while, but one day there will be three or four poorer clubs who just happen to have the right combinations of players and then we'll see a bit of a shift.


  5. #4
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    PL & FL rules are brilliant...

    The Fit & Proper Person's Test would mean that Nelson Mandela would be banned from owning a football club, but Robert Mugabe would be permitted.....

    You look at the money Chelsea, ManU City & co are spending against income, and their levels of debt.

    Do we really think they will be prohibited from playing in Europe because of the petty nuisance of massive debts?!

    Me neither..,

    By "relegation battle", do you mean 7th, 12th or 14th?

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  6. #5
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    What is the punishment for breaking the rules? Say if a team gets promoted and have gone over the spending, what will happen? .. They can't tell them their not being promoted surely?


  7. #6
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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTom View Post
    What is the punishment for breaking the rules? Say if a team gets promoted and have gone over the spending, what will happen? .. They can't tell them their not being promoted surely?
    I guess that you're correct and the won't deny cheats promotion. It seems to me to be a fitting punishment though.


  8. #7
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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    If it's a "big" team, they'll get a severe talking to, possibly going as far as someone wagging a finger at them.

    A small team will get arse raped, relegated, points deducted and fined, and THEN the FA will go to work on them....


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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    So is this a proper agreement with the Football League with proper punishments in place, or is it just guidelines that teams will just ignore when they see fit?


  10. #9
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    Lesta don't seem to be taking any notice


  11. #10

    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    To get round these rules the City Ground will now be called The Doughty & Hanson Stadium in a deal worth £100M


  12. #11
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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    I was under the impression that the £45m debt for 3 years and then £0 meant was meant as a 'from where you are now.' So in three years we'd have to not make a loss but could still be in debt by however much we already were.

    Wage bill could be sorted fairly easily (we'd just let contracts run out ) and if every team aside from Cardiff have to play by the rules then no one is disadvantaged. You might see a reduction in player demands too. I'm sure however they'll be ways round this anyway once some lawyers get involved and nothing will change.

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  13. #12
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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieLePop View Post
    I was under the impression that the £45m debt for 3 years and then £0 meant was meant as a 'from where you are now.' So in three years we'd have to not make a loss but could still be in debt by however much we already were.
    Yeah that was my understanding but additionally I think all debts have to be cleared after 6 years, however its really not very clear.

    For all the cynicism on this thread I think there is a real willingness the enforce this as all the clubs realise they are destroying themselves. Obviously there will always be a couple of clubs who think they can do better by ignoring the rules but if the other clubs (and this is a football league initiative I think not the FA) can punish them then it will be effective. Having said that if there are any punishments I can't find them published anywhere and without some kind of sanction they are mostly pointless.

    Sorry, an obvious sanction is that the same rules apply in the prem and if they don't meet them they won't be admitted.


  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by trickytrees
    So is this a proper agreement with the Football League with proper punishments in place, or is it just guidelines that teams will just ignore when they see fit?
    Guess......


  15. #14
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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    Uh-oh... lol


  16. #15
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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    I think there's enough pressure from Parliament to make football change and enforce it's policies. On paper it's a great bit of legislation but there's always a risk that the gulf between the top division and the rest will widen and relegated teams would stand a far greater chance of getting promotion.


  17. #16
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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    This is already in place in League two.

    Notts county's wages were 400% to their turnover when they got promoted.

    What did the FL do?

    Nothing.


  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flagman

    Guess......
    Oh how I missed your cynicism!

    Talk to me, Goose.

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by ollyman View Post
    in theory these rules will be good for the game - but in reality sides like leicester and man city will find ways around the rules, so it will end up making no difference what-so-ever...
    Good post mate.got too agree the way festa and the manchester arabs are doing is killing the game.the sooner some governing body slams the door shut on this vulgar spending the better.
    Manchini has come today and said he needs to spend even more!!.what i'd give to see these twats fail.


  20. #19
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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    This will be great for the majority of teams outside the CL positions. Hopefully even things out a bit and give teams that home grow players through Acadamies a slight advantage (I'd say we are one of them).

    Won't change a thing at the top though.

    Might force players to reduce their wage demands. That, or they'll move to other leagues that will pay their wage demands.

    Then again, I don't know the details about this legislation. I just know our government is demanding change.


  21. #20
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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    Doughty might as well turn the club into a not-for-profit or social enterprise organisation and gift us money each year to realise the tax breaks.


  22. #21

    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    I agree with Ollyman

    Whilst clubs like Leicester, Leeds, Cardiff exist, cheating and rule bending WILL be the norm.
    Also, I'm sorry but whilst corrupt arabs and asian's invest in the game, the English game will not prosper, and the grass roots will not grow!


  23. #22
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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    I'm confused... is a loan, eg Doughty's investment in his own company, a loan or a debt? I always thought they were different things.


  24. #23
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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    I have mixed feelings about these rules. On the one hand the game needs to stop our clubs being used as business ventures by cynical profiteers. The problem is these people will probably just continue to bend or ignore the rules (Leics). If these rules were enforced they would mean the final nail in the coffin of Forest ever playing in Europe again. The only way a club can join the elite group now is to do what Man City are doing & Chelsea did i.e spend big for a few seasons to get into the elite club. That route will be forever blocked, and I think this will hasten the formation of a breakaway elite European league.

    Stand Firm And Strike Hard

  25. #24
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    Default Re: Financial Fair Play and Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by adam09 View Post
    I'm confused... is a loan, eg Doughty's investment in his own company, a loan or a debt? I always thought they were different things.
    It's a director's loan I think so it is nigel personally loaning the club money. This is debt from the company's side and a loan from nigel's side.


  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich

    Oh how I missed your cynicism!
    lol Nice to be back!


 

 

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