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  • Allardyce

    54 61.36%
  • Calderwood

    34 38.64%
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Thread: It's a two horse race

      
  1. #1
    Rice IV
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    Default It's a two horse race

    Ok, putting aside any thoughts about Doughty not being able to secure Allardyce, or Allardyce not wanting to come here.

    It's a simple question, in a gun to the head 'you have to pick one' sort of way, Allardyce or Calderwood?

    Who is the more likely to save us from relegation this season and why?

    If you think Allardyce is all about the hoofball, please give examples of this. I personally have seen Bolton play on numerous occasions under him, and wouldn't say they resorted to constant hoofball at all.

    On the downside, his tenure at Newcastle was, at the time, seen as disastrous (although with hindsight, he seems to have managed to get them into a better position than they currently are).

    Was this down to the egos of certain players not being willing to adapt to his techniques? If this was the case, would he suffer the same fate here?

    How would he deal with the acquisition panel? He has a bit of a dodgy background, but I don't think a club with a stand, a road, and soon to be a statue dedicated to Brian Clough has any right to moralise over past shady dealings.

    Would this hinder his ability to bring in the players we need? Would he relish working with an acquisition panel, and being given the chance to sign players with total open book policy? Innocent people have nothing to hide, and here he wouldn't be able to hide any backhanders. It could be the chance for him to show that his ability is above his dodgy contact book.

    On the other hand, Calderwood did get us promoted only a few short months ago. However lucky people may claim it was, we still had to beat teams, and got the job done. People claim Carlisle were a better outfit, but we still went to their place and got a result. Doncaster beat us in one of our worst ever performances, but Calderwood managed to build quite a fine run of form from that point on.

    He has also embraced the acquisition panel, and has made some outstanding signings. He has not been afraid to bring youth into the side, notably bringing McGugan, who is one of our top rated players, into the squad from the youth team.

    He has been fiscally shrewd, refusing to pay over the odds for players just because we could afford it. In times gone by we may have paid over the odds for the likes of Leon Best, and found ourselves in financial trouble.

    Does his bloody mindedness in the transfer market appeal to a very shrewd Nigel Doughty? How big a factor is that?

    Has Doughty now got the £60m Premiership money in his sights, and what would he do to get that?

    Does Calderwoods bloody mindedness create something of a dichotomy? In that it is great in the transfer market, but means he struggles to adjust his formation during a game, believing that what he has set out from the start is the right way to go?

    Do you admire that in a manager or do you think he should be flexible enough to change things around at any point during the match, not just at the designated 70-75 minute 'make or break' mark?

    Boys and girls, as Lloyd Grossman would say, it's over to you.

    Calderwood or Allardyce - you decide.

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  3. #2
    Miserable bastard
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    Much like the election, I'm not going to bother voting, due to not agreeing with either candidate.


  4. #3
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    I've got a lot of love for Colin, but I'm grudgingly going for Allardyce.

    I think he's the best English manager around. What a coup if we could get him here....


  5. #4
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    Quote Originally Posted by The Congo Red
    Much like the election, I'm not going to bother voting, due to not agreeing with either candidate.
    Gun to the head moment....


  6. #5

    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    If forced to pick right now, I think my gut instinct would be alladyce just because I think we would have more chance of staying up.

    I desperatly want Colin to suceed though.


  7. #6
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    I've cogitated and deliberated, and picked Big Sam.


  8. #7
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    I think we all want a review of my CD Colin to succeed. I don't for one second want any failure at the club.

    However, there has to come point where someone has to say that we are headign for failure, and changes it.


  9. #8
    Rice 17
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    I would stick with Colin, Im sure he is going to turn things round. Consistancy is what is needed right now and not change.

    I'm sick of it

  10. #9
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    Interesting that everyone so far who has commented has gone for Allardyce, yet Calderwood has some votes.

    Come on you Calderwood voters, give some reason and support. Would be good to have a proper debate without denegrating to name calling and 'comedy' names such as Calderwank or Calderdud.


  11. #10
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    Allardyce for me.

    He has proven that he can manage at this level. I honestly dont think that Colin will be able to get us out of this relegation battle.
    It just seems to be the same old story at the moment, we go one down he waits 30mins to make a substitution when its too late, he persistently perseveres with Chambers, the majority of players are playing with the drive and desire that they did at the start of the season.
    I feel we need a 'harder' man, whos going to tell you how it is.





  12. #11
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    Quote Originally Posted by richjcrouch
    Interesting that everyone so far who has commented has gone for Allardyce, yet Calderwood has some votes.

    Come on you Calderwood voters, give some reason and support. Would be good to have a proper debate without denegrating to name calling and 'comedy' names such as Calderwank or Calderdud.
    Boooo! Let's have comedy name calling. Calderwank v Allardickhead. Fight!!!!


  13. #12
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    Quote Originally Posted by richjcrouch
    Gun to the head moment....
    Sounds fair. At least I'll be put out of my misery quicker than those of you waiting for Calderwood or Allardyce to save this club.


  14. #13
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    It's got to be Allardyce, personally though I would prefer Warnock. We don't have to have an out of work manager do we?

    Maybe our AP should go out and get a manager much the same way they get a player. Decide who you want, approach his Chairman, start negotiations.

    If we get a manager Doughty trusts (with his money) then the AP panel will become redundant. this applies to allardyce and other proven manager. It's a case of ND not fully trusting CC IMHO.

    Rich wrote:
    He has been fiscally shrewd, refusing to pay over the odds for players just because we could afford it. In times gone by we may have paid over the odds for the likes of Leon Best, and found ourselves in financial trouble

    If you mean CC has been fiscally shrewd, I disagree the AP has been.
    Just for a few more quid we could have Leon Best and Ben Watson.
    Not getting them in is a mistake in my book.




  15. #14
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    Keeping it simple;

    Allardyce:
    + Took an unfashionable team struggling in the league we are currently in to Europe.
    + Has well praised training methods.
    - Newcastle tenure not so great.

    Calderwood
    + Spots decent talent
    - Has no tactical awareness
    - Has lost the dressing room
    - Has us bottom of the league, without a win in eight.

    Anyone who seriously thinks Calderwood is a better manager should take a long hard look at why they think that.

    .k I m
    I m u mm

  16. #15
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    Quote Originally Posted by lif3mouldnn
    If you mean CC has been fiscally shrewd, I disagree the AP has been.
    Just for a few more quid we could have Leon Best and Ben Watson.
    Not getting them in is a mistake in my book.

    I take your point, but I think the panel/Doughty were willing to go much higher for Best, and Calderwood vetoed it stating he didn't think the quality matched the inflated price.

    Good point, though, and one which should put us in good stead with any incoming manager. Managers will not be able to spend silly money on poor buys.

    This alone leads me towards a manager who has skills on the training ground and tactical awareness. Allardyce fits this bill.

    Warnock is an interesting choice. Yes, he is accomplished, and would do well here. I can see why he is a firm favourite in some discussions. For me, though, allardyce just offers that bit more.

    In all honesty, I'd happily take either over Calderwood at the minute.

    The comment about getting a currently employed manager is a good one. I don't know if there is an etiquette surrounding 'tapping up' or 'head hunting' new managers. My opinion of both Warnock and Allardyce, however, si not based on their current employment status, and I doubt yours truly is either.

    If Warnock was out of a job, I imagine you would still want him as Forest manager, wouldn't you?


  17. #16
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    As much as I still want CC to succeed here when you contrast their credentials Allardyce is the only winner.


  18. #17
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    I'd stick with what we've got thanks if the only other option was bringing that great lump in.


  19. #18
    oopsy daisy!
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    I want Calderwood to succeed. I still think he's capable of turning this season round so that in May we're wondering what the fuss was about and elements will be predicting automatic promotion and a tilt at the Premiership title in two years time (!).

    However. I'm pretty certain Allardyce could turn it round. There is a big difference between 'think' and 'certain'. Under the terms set out I'd have to vote 'Allardyce'

    I'm not sure how he'd react to the Aquisitions panel. To be fair, it's been refusing to pay £1.6m for the likes of Leon Best that has enabled us to be able to bid £1.5m for the likes of Leon Best. I don't see us blowing £12 on 3 Italians anymore. At a time when nearly all football clubs are under great financial pressure we are in a position to be able to spend money. The downside to that is that we'd have to now spend it in January - and that's not going to happen is it.

    I'd love to have Warnock here - he's a winner. Much as I loathe him as an opponent.


  20. #19
    yam
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    I'd like to have been able to pick calderwood but I can't think of anything positive to say other than he's a nice guy and we fluked promotion last year.

    I think Allerdyce has more of what it takes to turn the season around - much in the same way that Kinnear was more able to save us than Hart.


  21. #20
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    Quote Originally Posted by puds1970
    I'd stick with what we've got thanks if the only other option was bringing that great lump in.
    Without wanting to sound condescending, any chance you could back up that opinion?


  22. #21
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    Slightly off the subject. I'm quite disappointed that our fans now seem to be satisfied with our position. I stopped after the game on Tuesday night, to basically (sounds daft now i know, but ey i'd had several pint at Amici before the game and half time) find Calderwood and tell him to leave (Yeah it does sound daft!)
    I spoke to several fans whilst waiting and they all argued in favour of Calderwood. Saying that all big Sam would do is play long ball and they didnt want that. When i asked the said fans, what would you rather? Stay up and change things or go down, they opted for the latter! I feel that we are so used to crap now, that even when a great opprtunity (which i think Big Sam would be) comes along, we are afraid!


  23. #22
    winnits
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    Is it a flat race or over fences? I can't see Allardyce getting over a meaty hedge and ditch, but CC's whippet-like physique might mean he could make it.


  24. #23
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    I think those who claim big Sam to be nothing but long ball are purely regurgitating soundbytes they have heard, rather than speaking from experience of watching his teams.


  25. #24
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnits
    Is it a flat race or over fences? I can't see Allardyce getting over a meaty hedge and ditch, but CC's whippet-like physique might mean he could make it.
    It's more of a fight to the death.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: It's a two horse race

    Quote Originally Posted by richjcrouch
    Without wanting to sound condescending, any chance you could back up that opinion?
    Quite simply put Rich I do not appreciate the type of football Mr Allardyce promotes. But thats just my opinion.


 

 

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