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Thread: Football in the clouds

      
  1. #1
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    Default Football in the clouds

    I for 1 am sick of hearing the Big Sam rumour.

    And i would definately not have bought a season ticket if id have thought we would have a big kick merchant in charge.

    Calderwoods got his faults but we've played some of our most attractive football in years at times this season.

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    But, I bet you'd buy a season ticket for the premier league season which is where Big Sam would take us.




  4. #3
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Big Sam does not play football in the clouds.

    Big Sam styles his football on players he has available in his team. Anyone with half an ounce of intelligence will know that Earnshaw isn't going to win every header like Davies would, so Big Sam instructing his players to hit long balls would not work.




  5. #4
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Big Sam for me would need at least a relegation and 2 years to get us out of there and then a few years in this league before we were even looking at promotion. Big Sam has to be considered a long term manager and has to be given a few years of failure i.e relegation --> not getting promoted from league 1 etc. I am not up for relegation this year and I am fed up of it.

    Calderwood I can see turning it around when the injury issue is resolved. Big Sam I am certain won't.


  6. #5
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by mouldy
    Big Sam for me would need at least a relegation and 2 years to get us out of there and then a few years in this league before we were even looking at promotion. Big Sam has to be considered a long term manager and has to be given a few years of failure i.e relegation --> not getting promoted from league 1 etc. I am not up for relegation this year and I am fed up of it.
    ...and of course our extremely patient fans will give him all the time he needs, without turning on him [/sarcasm], in order to...

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl360
    Big Sam styles his football on players he has available in his team. Anyone with half an ounce of intelligence will know that Earnshaw isn't going to win every header like Davies would, so Big Sam instructing his players to hit long balls would not work.
    ...bring in the players required to turn us into a bunch of long-ball bully-boys.


  7. #6
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Whats it to be then...
    Long Ball (which isn't entirely true anyway) and success?
    Pretty Football and failure?
    Either way, we will boo and moan.
    But everyone reckons we are too good to go down. Remind me what happened last time we got told that?



  8. #7
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by alfordred
    Whats it to be then...
    Long Ball (which isn't entirely true anyway) and success?
    Pretty Football and failure?
    Either way, we will boo and moan.
    The two are NOT mutually exclusive. It is possible to play good football AND be succesful, even in your first year in a division following promotion.

    I site the example of Peterborough United, who in their first year in League 1 are playing good football and enjoying a very good position in a league where we were told you couldn't be succesful by playing football.


  9. #8
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Obviously, the way forward is to play a mix of tough 'long ball' football and passing football...

    We have the players to play pretty football. We need a hard number 9 who can use his feet (some bloke called Grant Holt), a hard man in midfield who isn't scared to put his foot in (Sammy who?) and a big centre back that'll win everything (which we haven't had for years).


  10. #9
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by wesizleftpeg
    Obviously, the way forward is to play a mix of tough 'long ball' football and passing football...
    I'd say the way forward is to have players who are intelligent enough to know when to pass and when to belt it clear, rather than it having to be made clear to them to largely do one or the other. Although given the average intelligence of the modern footballer, that's probably asking too much.

    Wonder if Spurs would let us have Dawson back?


  11. #10
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    If we're going to moan about something, I'd sooner it be about just missingout on Europe than relegation to divison 3.

    The idea that Allardyce would bring relegation is, in my opinion, absurd.

    Whilst nobody can see the future, I think we are far more likely to be relegated with Calderwood at the helm than without him.

    Allardyce brings with him a lot of technical experience. As has been pointed out on here, he is a pioneer, almost of equal magnitude to Wenger, on the off field side of the game.

    His training techniques are so forward thinking and advanced that it would be a major culture shock to our current players.

    I just hope that if he comes Doughty will stump up for the Prozone - a system pioneered by Allardyce that is used by almost all Premiership clubs now.

    His analysis of what a player does, and ability to target specific improvements is closer to Formula One than traditional football.

    We will improve as a team with him here, of that I have no doubt.

    As for long ball, I imagine we will all be pleasantly surprised. Take a look at some Bolton forums and you'll see that the long ball he is famed for is a complete misnomer.

    Allardyce would be the first appointment since Clough left that would leave me feeling completely fulfilled. The air of trepidation that I have felt for every appointment from Clark to Calderwood and all those inbetween is non existent when even contemplating the thought of him managing us.

    Talk to me, Goose.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by richjcrouch
    Allardyce brings with him a lot of technical experience. As has been pointed out on here, he is a pioneer, almost of equal magnitude to Wenger, on the off field side of the game.
    But, as I keep pointing out, Allardyce categorically WILL NOT accept having his transfers moderated by an acquisitions group.


  13. #12
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by richjcrouch
    If we're going to moan about something, I'd sooner it be about just missingout on Europe than relegation to divison 3.

    The idea that Allardyce would bring relegation is, in my opinion, absurd.

    Whilst nobody can see the future, I think we are far more likely to be relegated with Calderwood at the helm than without him.

    Allardyce brings with him a lot of technical experience. As has been pointed out on here, he is a pioneer, almost of equal magnitude to Wenger, on the off field side of the game.

    His training techniques are so forward thinking and advanced that it would be a major culture shock to our current players.

    I just hope that if he comes Doughty will stump up for the Prozone - a system pioneered by Allardyce that is used by almost all Premiership clubs now.

    His analysis of what a player does, and ability to target specific improvements is closer to Formula One than traditional football.

    We will improve as a team with him here, of that I have no doubt.

    As for long ball, I imagine we will all be pleasantly surprised. Take a look at some Bolton forums and you'll see that the long ball he is famed for is a complete misnomer.

    Allardyce would be the first appointment since Clough left that would leave me feeling completely fulfilled. The air of trepidation that I have felt for every appointment from Clark to Calderwood and all those inbetween is non existent when even contemplating the thought of him managing us.
    Excellent post. From the 4th paragraph onwards, you've summed up my feelings exactly.

    As much as I like and admire CC, I can't help but feel a sense of excitement at the prospect of Allardyce. The man's a true alchemist in a footalling sense.


  14. #13
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by The Congo Red
    But, as I keep pointing out, Allardyce categorically WILL NOT accept having his transfers moderated by an acquisitions group.
    I see your point, but I don't think you can categorically state that.

    Given his past, he may welcome the chance to make some open transfers and begin to clear his name.

    It may be a stumbling block, but I don't think it will rule him out.


  15. #14
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by One Lynch Punch
    Excellent post.
    High praise indeed.

    I feel like a Priest being told he's doing well by the Pope!


  16. #15
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by richjcrouch
    I see your point, but I don't think you can categorically state that.
    I can and I will. :P He said, on air, during the Keegan/Wise saga that he would rather walk away from a club than tolerate an interfering Director of Football. It stands to reason, then, that he's someone who has to have abssolute control of what he's doing.


  17. #16
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by The Congo Red
    But, as I keep pointing out, Allardyce categorically WILL NOT accept having his transfers moderated by an acquisitions group.
    I'll think he's pragmatic enough to work within an existing framework. He would still have the ultimate decision over any comings and goings.

    Quote Originally Posted by richjcrouch
    High praise indeed.

    I feel like a Priest being told he's doing well by the Pope!
    I didn't mean to seem patronising, if that's what you're saying.

    It's very rare that you find yourself nodding along whilst reading a post, I just thought I should register my appreciation...


  18. #17
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    It's also worth remembering that manager of the moment, who can do no wrong and has taken a nothing side to the top end of the Premiership, more than matching the big boys, Phil Brown, learnt pretty much everything he knows from Allardyce.

    Hull are the new Bolton, in more ways than one. They are unfashionable, grafting, results driven and very well drilled. Exactly how Bolton were under Allardyce.

    Brown is Allardyce minus the dodgy acquisitions.

    If we could get Allardyce minus the dodgy acquisitions, I would expect us to be doing in a few years time what Hull are doing now.

    It's vindication of the Allardyce technique when someone copies it and produces the same results.

    It's a proven formula, and something I want Forest to be part of.

    Wenger is lauded for what he has brought to the game, and all he brought was strict diets and stretching. Allardyce brings with him that same level of nutritional expertise, the same level of understanding of the body and a real understanding of the game in the 21st century.

    Allardyce has real time info on every player during a match, and the ability to change things accordingly. There will be no more waiting until the change needed is so obvious it has already been countered. Dynamic changes will be subtle, yet have huge influence.

    I'm actually excited at the prospect of Allardyce managing this football club, and pray that it happens.

    I'd be willing to make a bet that we would be in the next time we exited the Championship under Allardyce it would be to the Premiership and not to League One.


  19. #18
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by One Lynch Punch
    I didn't mean to seem patronising, if that's what you're saying.

    It's very rare that you find yourself nodding along whilst reading a post, I just thought I should register my appreciation...
    God, no.

    I wasn't being sarcastic, just mutually appreciative.


  20. #19
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by The Congo Red
    The two are NOT mutually exclusive. It is possible to play good football AND be succesful
    I understand that, and personally I'm in favour of giving CC more time. But time slips by quickly so how long before we change things?, who wants to end up back in league one?, and even if we did slip back down who would stay? Earnie? McGugan?Wilson? not on your nelly.



  21. #20
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by One Lynch Punch
    Excellent post.
    I second that, well done young man.


  22. #21
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    All that being as it is, though...I'm not in the Calderwood Out camp as yet. I'm reserving judgement until 4.50 tomorrow afternoon.


  23. #22
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    I think I am in the CC out camp now.

    There is no going back, and the more I think about the alternatives, the more I am standing fast in that camp.

    It's not even a camp anymore, it has become a village, which will soon become a town.

    Once it gets a University and a Cathedral CC will have his successes here overshadowed by his failings.

    He is a nice bloke, he has done a lot more for this club than any manager since Clark, and he has assembled a squad that is capable of so much more.

    Unfortunately, he has been lacking in that final third. I don't know what it is, but we just can't seem to beat anyone on tactics.


  24. #23
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by cmw
    I for 1 am sick of hearing the Big Sam rumour.

    And i would definately not have bought a season ticket if id have thought we would have a big kick merchant in charge.

    Calderwoods got his faults but we've played some of our most attractive football in years at times this season.
    Got to be honest, I thought hoofing the eball towards Tyson repeatedly on Tuesday night WAS football in the clouds


  25. #24
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Hoofball doesn't work with our players.

    Allardyce will see this and play a system that gets the best out of the players.

    His reputation as a long ball merchant is unfair. It was a system that worked against certain teams with the players he had at his disposal. It wasn't a system he used every game.

    If we had players who reacted well to long ball, rather than passing, I would be happy to see it used.

    Allardyce will, if he comes, be the man to put us back where we belong.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: Football in the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by richjcrouch
    It's not even a camp anymore, it has become a village, which will soon become a town.

    Once it gets a University and a Cathedral CC will have his successes here overshadowed by his failings.
    ...and the winner of todays over-blown metaphor of the day is...


 

 

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