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  1. #1
    Rice IV
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    Default Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Surely the current Pope has to be quite high on the list!

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  3. #2
    Victor Meldrew
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Pope Pius X11


  4. #3
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Pope Peri was the most fragrent.


  5. #4
    AKA Randy Bumgardener
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Pope Pourri (see what I did there)

    'The cross came in from Majewski, and Blackstock slid in, Gabriel Tamas attached to him in the manner in which a baby chimpanzee clings to its mother' Dexter Blackstock vs West Brom


  6. #5
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freiro Cornholio
    Pope Pourri (see what I did there)
    I do, but I have never heard of him.


  7. #6
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Pope John Paul II was alleged to have worked for the Gestapo in WW2; rouding up Polish resistance fighters and handing them over to the Germans for execution. All rumours of course.

    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  8. #7
    Fezler69
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freiro Cornholio
    Pope Pourri (see what I did there)
    yeah stole my gag!

    erm

    Pope Pot was the biggest lover of genocide in the church


  9. #8
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Pope Timophy was the Best singer.


  10. #9
    AKA Randy Bumgardener
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fezler69
    yeah stole my gag!

    erm

    Pope Pot was the biggest lover of genocide in the church
    Just noticed , I apologise


  11. #10

    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Geoff Hurst in 66


  12. #11
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Racist.


  13. #12
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    I though this thread might magically appear!

    For Anatoli, and anyone else bored eough to bother reading:

    Pius XII saved nearly a million Jews, more than any other single country or agency. The argument that he never made a strong enough public denouncement of Hitler has always confused me as I thought actions were supposed to speak louder than words.

    His supposed silence is easily explained in any case. As leader of the Catholic church, his first responsibility was to Europe's Catholics. He refrained from public condemnation as he knew what the consequences of such an outburst would be. Let’s not forget, he was the head of a church that was based in the heart of the capital of Mussolini’s Italy.

    Furthermore, the merits of his “diplomatic” approach are clear. In 1942 the Bishop of Amsterdam publicly condemned Hitler and the Nazis, against the wishes of Pius who had pleaded with him to show some prudence. Within 24 hours 3000 Dutch Catholics had been massacred indiscriminately. Pius knew the calibre of enemy that he had in Hitler – a man who would not hesitate to use reprisal attacks against innocent people in a bid to deter public criticism. In the words of one Jewish German woman who found refuge in Spain, thanks entirely to the endeavours of the Papacy: “we were all fugitives and fugitives do not want to be pointed at…it is better that the Pope said nothing. We believed this at the time and it is still our conviction today”

    He did extensive work behind the scenes. Quite apart from the million lives that he saved, he chaired a meeting in 1944 of military leaders, discussing various plots to assassinate Hitler. He paid a ransom thought to be in the region US$40,000 to release thousands of Italian Jews from internment camps, who otherwise would have been sent to death. His work so touched the chief Rabbi of Rome, with whom he had collaborated for the entirety of the conflict, that he converted to Catholicism in 1946. Hitler, himself, is on record saying that, of all his numerous adversaries; political, military etc, none was so worthy as Pius. Einstein, probably the most famous Jewish figure of the 20th century, told Time Magazine that in the face of the Nazi onslaught in 1938, he looked to the universities and the political organisations for resistance and saw none, and was surprised, as an atheist, to find that the only institution that was active in opposition to the policies of Hitler was the Roman Catholic Church.

    I could go, but I won’t. It’s a dangerous libel that has been allowed to prosper out of a combination of bigotry and politics. The Catholic church refused to accept the legitimacy of the Israeli state until 1987. Israel’s ultra-orthodox right needed something with which to discredit the Papacy, by means of retaliation. Hey presto. The fact that so many scholars, commentators, historians etc have been willing to subscribe to such a misrepresentation, despite the overwhelming weight of evidence to the contrary, is fairly easily explained, but that’s for another time.





  14. #13
    Fezler69
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freiro Cornholio
    Just noticed , I apologise*
    apology accepted.


  15. #14
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Only The Woan-ly
    I though this thread might magically appear!

    For Anatoli, and anyone else bored eough to bother reading:

    Pius XII saved nearly a million Jews, more than any other single country or agency. The argument that he never made a strong enough public denouncement of Hitler has always confused me as I thought actions were supposed to speak louder than words.

    His supposed silence is easily explained in any case. As leader of the Catholic church, his first responsibility was to Europe's Catholics. He refrained from public condemnation as he knew what the consequences of such an outburst would be. Let’s not forget, he was the head of a church that was based in the heart of the capital of Mussolini’s Italy.

    Furthermore, the merits of his “diplomatic” approach are clear. In 1942 the Bishop of Amsterdam publicly condemned Hitler and the Nazis, against the wishes of Pius who had pleaded with him to show some prudence. Within 24 hours 3000 Dutch Catholics had been massacred indiscriminately. Pius knew the calibre of enemy that he had in Hitler – a man who would not hesitate to use reprisal attacks against innocent people in a bid to deter public criticism. In the words of one Jewish German woman who found refuge in Spain, thanks entirely to the endeavours of the Papacy: “we were all fugitives and fugitives do not want to be pointed at…it is better that the Pope said nothing. We believed this at the time and it is still our conviction today”

    He did extensive work behind the scenes. Quite apart from the million lives that he saved, he chaired a meeting in 1944 of military leaders, discussing various plots to assassinate Hitler. He paid a ransom thought to be in the region US$40,000 to release thousands of Italian Jews from internment camps, who otherwise would have been sent to death. His work so touched the chief Rabbi of Rome, with whom he had collaborated for the entirety of the conflict, that he converted to Catholicism in 1946. Hitler, himself, is on record saying that, of all his numerous adversaries; political, military etc, none was so worthy as Pius. Einstein, probably the most famous Jewish figure of the 20th century, told Time Magazine that in the face of the Nazi onslaught in 1938, he looked to the universities and the political organisations for resistance and saw none, and was surprised, as an atheist, to find that the only institution that was active in opposition to the policies of Hitler was the Roman Catholic Church.

    I could go, but I won’t. It’s a dangerous libel that has been allowed to prosper out of a combination of bigotry and politics. The Catholic church refused to accept the legitimacy of the Israeli state until 1987. Israel’s ultra-orthodox right needed something with which to discredit the Papacy, by means of retaliation. Hey presto. The fact that so many scholars, commentators, historians etc have been willing to subscribe to such a misrepresentation, despite the overwhelming weight of evidence to the contrary, is fairly easily explained, but that’s for another time.


    That's fascinating - I remember (vaguely, it was a long time ago) covering the rise and fall of Nazism during my A level history syllabus and the condemnation that the Catholic Church received due to their supposed inaction was one of the main themes - especially as the perceived wisdom at the time was that a public excommunication of Hitler (who had been raised as a Catholic) could have had a tempering effect on his subsequent actions

    The age old adage that history is written to suit the perspective of the winners (i.e. predominantly Protestant) may well be true here. Hopefully time and distance from the terrible events will address and recognise those who helped defeat or Hitler on all fronts


  16. #15
    Living the dream
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    The Mcanns love a good pope. I wonder if can book one for babysitting?


  17. #16
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squibbit
    That's fascinating - I remember (vaguely, it was a long time ago) covering the rise and fall of Nazism during my A level history syllabus and the condemnation that the Catholic Church received due to their supposed inaction was one of the main themes - especially as the perceived wisdom at the time was that a public excommunication of Hitler (who had been raised as a Catholic) could have had a tempering effect on his subsequent actions

    The age old adage that history is written to suit the perspective of the winners (i.e. predominantly Protestant) may well be true here. Hopefully time and distance from the terrible events will address and recognise those who helped defeat or Hitler on all fronts
    Yeah, it just seems to have become accepted wisdom which I don't think is fair...


  18. #17
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dadford
    The Mcanns love a good pope. I wonder if can book one for babysitting?



  19. #18
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dadford
    The Mcanns love a good pope. I wonder if can book one for babysitting?
    Are you going for Tapas? We'll join you. Do you think Popey will look after mine too?


  20. #19
    winnits
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    The Borgias were quite a nasty bunch.


  21. #20
    Swedish Meatball
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Only The Woan-ly
    I though this thread might magically appear!
    Thanks - I genuinely learned something.


  22. #21
    Victor Meldrew
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    Default Re: Which Pope was the Biggest Nazi?

    Israel website in 'Nazi pope' row

    An exhibit at the Yad Vashem memorial is seen as critical of Pius XII
    A photo montage which superimposed a Nazi swastika over Pope Benedict has appeared on a website run by supporters of Israel's leading political party.

    The image was later removed from the Yalla Kadima website, apparently on the orders of party leader Tzipi Livni.

    The incident comes amid a row with the Vatican over Israeli claims that the late Pope Pius XII could have done more to prevent the Jewish holocaust.

    Ms Livni is currently trying to form a government and become prime minister.

    "Tzipi Livni strongly condemns this and we are working to remove this shameful picture. We strongly oppose this. It doesn't represent Kadima," spokeman Amir Goldstein said shortly before the photo was changed.

    Speaking anonymously, one of the website's editors told the BBC the site is a platform for Kadima activists to voice their opinions in a manner they cannot do on the official website.

    The letter and graphics were sent in by a group of pensioners, he said.

    "Some of these people are first generation or second generation holocaust survivors, and this is their legitimate protest," he said.

    He said Ms Livni rang personally and asked for the picture to be taken down, saying it could cause diplomatic strife.

    There are objections among many in Israel to the long process, begun in 1967, to make Pope Pius, who was pontiff from 1939 to 1958, a saint.

    'Incorrect interpretation'

    The row blew up afresh last week after the Vatican official in charge of the process said the current pontiff, Benedict, should not accept Israel's invitation to visit until the wording on an exhibit in the Yad Vashem holocaust memorial in Jerusalem is changed.


    Israel has issued an invitation to Pope Benedict to visit

    The display says that, despite warnings from clergy throughout Europe about the deportation of Jews to death camps, Pope Pius XII did nothing to condemn it or to intervene.

    The Vatican has repeatedly objected to the content of the display, saying it is an "incorrect interpretation the late Pope's role".

    The Holy See maintains that Pius actively helped some Jews by sheltering them in churches and monasteries.

    But the Vatican has also said the exhibit should not be a "determining factor" in a papal visit.

    Pope Benedict spoke last month in favour of the beatification process, a stage on the way to sainthood, for the former Pope.

    And Israel has long regarded the Vatican, which did not recognise the Jewish state until 1993, as pro-Palestinian.

    For its part, the Vatican wants to resolve a stand-off over the taxation of Church property in Israel, as well as problems with visas.

    Our correspondent says there is plenty of work ahead, but this meeting is a significant step towards a warmer relationship.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I said all along he was a Nazi.





 

 

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