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Thread: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

      
  1. #1
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    Default Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    http://www.thisisnottinghamforest.co...l/article.html

    WHEN I was a lad football was a man's game, played by men, not like today. I struggle to watch a full match these days, I really do. I don't even bother with internationals, especially friendlies.

    I'll probably watch five minutes at a time and then flick channels.

    I'd much rather sit and watch a video of one of our old games. Why? Because football is not a sport these days, it's just a business.

    There is a lot of money floating about now but some clubs are being run poorly. Money talks and I'm afraid the game's gone crazy.

    The monopoly money some players are being paid is obscene.

    Having said that, I still think English football is the best in the world. The Italians have good technical skills, don't get me wrong, but they are more worried about how their hair looks and showing off their latest tattoo than how they play. I couldn't watch Italian football every week, that's for sure.

    The fact is some of today's players don't know they are born. They are wrapped in cotton wool. Quite simply, Ronaldo and co, good as they are, would not have survived in my day.

    They are spoilt to death with their Porsches and baby Bentleys, designer suites, diamond earrings and Rolex watches. There are some good players out there, don't get me wrong. But there are many, earning millions who are just ordinary – they just have good engines.

    Let's face it, some of them are just tarts. If they ladder their stockings they are out for six weeks. Not that it bothers them – because they are still dragging in more a week than the Prime Minister does in a year.

    They think they are great players but let me tell you, they're not.

    Great players are Denis Law, Pele, John Charles, George Best, Dave Mackay and Jim Baxter. Now they are great players.

    Jim was probably the most gifted player of his generation. He was world class yet he only earned £45 a week when he was at Rangers. What would he be worth on today's market?

    I was considered to be hard. But I like to think I was fair...most of the time. But if a centre-forward was knocking lumps off me I was going to give him some back wasn't I? When someone elbowed me slyly in the mouth, I would bide my time and pay him back.

    If a player said I was a hard b*****d I would take it as a compliment. It showed I was doing my job.

    I've come up against some really hard men over the years, but nobody really frightened me. Stoke's Denis Smith and Alan Bloor were tough. So were Graeme Souness and Jimmy Case at Liverpool.

    I also admired Norman Hunter, Jackie Charlton, Paul Madeley and Billy Bremner at Leeds and Johnny Giles could be a bit tasty when he wanted to.

    But centre-halves are a different breed of man. They are born braver and stronger than the rest of us and I don't think they feel pain in the same way. Men like Micky Droy (Chelsea), John Roberts (Arsenal), Stuart Boam (Middlesbrough) John McGrath (Southampton) – now they were hard.

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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    The most poignant part of that was the players earning more than the Prime Minister part.

    The rest sounds a little like someone unwilling to accept how the game has changed.

    The skill levels have gone up, the fitness has gone up and the overall ability required to play at the top level has increased drastically.

    There's no place for the tactics Burns employed in todays game. Defenders have to be fit, time tackles and read the game now. Back then they merely had to 'be a bit tasty' to succeed.

    I prefer to see a cultured defender to a so called 'hard man'.

    Morgan is comfortably a 'harder man' than Burns, but plays in a much harder game. It would be easy for him to demobilise strikers, but that's not how the game should be played.

    I love to see a well timed tackle, and I cringe when someone lunges in with no intention of taking the ball. Accuracy is infinitely harder than brutality, and for that reason, Kenny Burns, as much as he may be a legend, would not make it in todays professional game.

    Talk to me, Goose.

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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich.
    The most poignant part of that was the players earning more than the Prime Minister part.

    The rest sounds a little like someone unwilling to accept how the game has changed.

    The skill levels have gone up, the fitness has gone up and the overall ability required to play at the top level has increased drastically.

    There's no place for the tactics Burns employed in todays game. Defenders have to be fit, time tackles and read the game now. Back then they merely had to 'be a bit tasty' to succeed.

    I prefer to see a cultured defender to a so called 'hard man'.

    Morgan is comfortably a 'harder man' than Burns, but plays in a much harder game. It would be easy for him to demobilise strikers, but that's not how the game should be played.

    I love to see a well timed tackle, and I cringe when someone lunges in with no intention of taking the ball. Accuracy is infinitely harder than brutality, and for that reason, Kenny Burns, as much as he may be a legend, would not make it in todays professional game.
    You've firmly hit the nail on the head there.

    I can just imagine him saying things like 'It wasn't like that in my day' or 'He wouldn't last 5 minutes if I were playing'.

    Not just the fitness part of football has changed but so have some of the rules - some of them for the better.

    Gone are the days when you could just rough somebody up by a tackle - you can hardly touch a player now without a free-kick being awarded.


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Maniacal Megatron
    Gone are the days when you could just rough somebody up by a tackle - you can hardly touch a player now without a free-kick being awarded.
    Yeah, its gone too far the other way now.


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    A few years after the premier league was created was when football was it it's most reasonable. physical yet not brutal and in no way namby pamby like it is now in the premier league.

    I admit i get bored watching too which is why the championship is a good place to be - it relies more on 'harder' men than the prem, probably to the same degree that the prem did in about 1995.


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Maniacal Megatron
    You've firmly hit the nail on the head there.

    I can just imagine him saying things like 'It wasn't like that in my day' or 'He wouldn't last 5 minutes if I were playing'.

    Not just the fitness part of football has changed but so have some of the rules - some of them for the better.

    Gone are the days when you could just rough somebody up by a tackle - you can hardly touch a player now without a free-kick being awarded.
    Also Burns wouldn't last 5 minutes in the PL if he was playing when he was at his fittest


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Quote Originally Posted by edgardinho
    A few years after the premier league was created was when football was it it's most reasonable. physical yet not brutal and in no way namby pamby like it is now in the premier league.

    I admit i get bored watching too which is why the championship is a good place to be - it relies more on 'harder' men than the prem, probably to the same degree that the prem did in about 1995.
    Yup, a few years back I'd have got Sky and that for PL games. Now I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, wouldn't want to give money to the Big 4. I'm happy with the BBC Championship coverage, watching Forest live, and reading about the England team and the PL in the papers.

    ... I'll have to watch the WC though mind


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Quote Originally Posted by FBS
    Also Burns wouldn't last 5 minutes in the PL if he was playing when he was at his fittest
    Very true. lol


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    The big issue - apart from players wages - that you can have the physical side of the game or the fitness, but not both. The troubles with being very athletic is that the damage from is knock is far greater than damage to a non-athlete.




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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich.

    The skill levels have gone up, the fitness has gone up and the overall ability required to play at the top level has increased drastically.
    Don't agree with that about the skill level, for example if we're talking skill and talent the last decent World Cup for me was 1982. If you don't believe me check out the game between Brazil V Italy (2-3) and then comeback with your skill levels have gone up line. That is still one of the greatest games of Football I have ever seen and remember this was still in the days when defenders had free reign.


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    I definitely agree with him about struggling to watch a full game though.

    The majority of game on sky these days are dreadful, especially the top 4 encounters. The levels of fouling and complaining to the referee have reached a level I just can't tolerate any more. It's not why I got into football in the first place and it's become somewhat of a childish, foul mouthed, unsportsmanlike mess.

    Not one of Wenger, Fergie, Benitez or Ancelotti have the slightest inclination or bollocks to actually stand up and make their players behave like men, so hell bent on winning are they that everything else pails into insignificance. And we wonder why the country is full of little shits? Football is cool at the end of the day, so no one on the playground is going to knock you for behaving like the top footballers, but when you see 6 or 7 red faced United players surround the referee just because he had the tenacity to award a free kick against them it sets a precedent that I'm afraid is now probably seen as acceptable up and down the country.

    People stick up for Fergie and the like for allowing this carry on because they win things. Well excuse me for being old fashioned, but should clubs not at least try to inject some level of fair play and decency as a priority ahead of simply winning?

    There was a fellow once who had the bollocks of a lion, who would stand up to any player regardless of what he earned, regardless of how good he was and regardless of how this affected the teams chances of winning the game. If he was behaving incorrectly he was of instantly. 4th minute, 89th minute it didn't matter. I'm talking about Sir Brian of course. I know we've had a few players over the years who liked the odd dive, or the odd kick here and there, but by and large it seems to me like the Cloughie teams throughout the late 70s and 80s are so far removed from the petty and embarassing bollocks we have to endure these days that we're almost watching a different sport.

    I think of a time perhaps 15 years down the line when I might have a kid who wants to play under 10s footie. Will I have to stand on the sidelines watching them kick the shit out of each other, piss and moan when decisions go against them and listen to other disgusting parents ranting and raving about any decision as though winning is far more important than any standards or principles? I'm not sure I could endure it. I might take the lad to play badminton instead, not nearly as fun a sport, but at least it might be full of people behaving like humans.




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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Quote Originally Posted by weasel
    I definitely agree with him about struggling to watch a full game though.

    The majority of game on sky these days are dreadful, especially the top 4 encounters. The levels of fouling and complaining to the referee have reached a level I just can't tolerate any more. It's not why I got into football in the first place and it's become somewhat of a childish, foul mouthed, unsportsmanlike mess.

    Not one of Wenger, Fergie, Benitez or Ancelotti have the slightest inclination or bollocks to actually stand up and make their players behave like men, so hell bent on winning are they that everything else pails into insignificance. And we wonder why the country is full of little shits? Football is cool at the end of the day, so no one on the playground is going to knock you for behaving like the top footballers, but when you see 6 or 7 red faced United players surround the referee just because he had the tenacity to award a free kick against them it sets a precedent that I'm afraid is now probably seen as acceptable up and down the country.

    People stick up for Fergie and the like for allowing this carry on because they win things. Well excuse me for being old fashioned, but should clubs not at least try to inject some level of fair play and decency as a priority ahead of simply winning?

    There was a fellow once who had the bollocks of a lion, who would stand up to any player regardless of what he earned, regardless of how good he was and regardless of how this affected the teams chances of winning the game. If he was behaving incorrectly he was of instantly. 4th minute, 89th minute it didn't matter. I'm talking about Sir Brian of course. I know we've had a few players over the years who liked the odd dive, or the odd kick here and there, but by and large it seems to me like the Cloughie teams throughout the late 70s and 80s are so far removed from the petty and embarassing bollocks we have to endure these days that we're almost watching a different sport.

    I think of a time perhaps 15 years down the line when I might have a kid who wants to play under 10s footie. Will I have to stand on the sidelines watching them kick the shit out of each other, piss and moan when decisions go against them and listen to other disgusting parents ranting and raving about any decision as though winning is far more important than any standards or principles? I'm not sure I could endure it. I might take the lad to play badminton instead, not nearly as fun a sport, but at least it might be full of people behaving like humans.



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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Quote Originally Posted by weasel
    I definitely agree with him about struggling to watch a full game though.

    The majority of game on sky these days are dreadful, especially the top 4 encounters. The levels of fouling and complaining to the referee have reached a level I just can't tolerate any more. It's not why I got into football in the first place and it's become somewhat of a childish, foul mouthed, unsportsmanlike mess.

    Not one of Wenger, Fergie, Benitez or Ancelotti have the slightest inclination or bollocks to actually stand up and make their players behave like men, so hell bent on winning are they that everything else pails into insignificance. And we wonder why the country is full of little shits? Football is cool at the end of the day, so no one on the playground is going to knock you for behaving like the top footballers, but when you see 6 or 7 red faced United players surround the referee just because he had the tenacity to award a free kick against them it sets a precedent that I'm afraid is now probably seen as acceptable up and down the country.

    People stick up for Fergie and the like for allowing this carry on because they win things. Well excuse me for being old fashioned, but should clubs not at least try to inject some level of fair play and decency as a priority ahead of simply winning?

    There was a fellow once who had the bollocks of a lion, who would stand up to any player regardless of what he earned, regardless of how good he was and regardless of how this affected the teams chances of winning the game. If he was behaving incorrectly he was of instantly. 4th minute, 89th minute it didn't matter. I'm talking about Sir Brian of course. I know we've had a few players over the years who liked the odd dive, or the odd kick here and there, but by and large it seems to me like the Cloughie teams throughout the late 70s and 80s are so far removed from the petty and embarassing bollocks we have to endure these days that we're almost watching a different sport.

    I think of a time perhaps 15 years down the line when I might have a kid who wants to play under 10s footie. Will I have to stand on the sidelines watching them kick the shit out of each other, piss and moan when decisions go against them and listen to other disgusting parents ranting and raving about any decision as though winning is far more important than any standards or principles? I'm not sure I could endure it. I might take the lad to play badminton instead, not nearly as fun a sport, but at least it might be full of people behaving like humans.

    hear, hear.


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    I am taking less and less interest in top flight football with each passing year. I've lost total interest in the Champions League and internationals are usually borefests until you get to the Tournaments, where things really matter and can still turn a bit tasty.

    I'm pretty fed up of seeing people like Drogba, Ronaldo and Robbie Savage rolling around, flicking their hair as they dive over, pretending to be hurt and trying to get other people in trouble. It's people like them who have and are ruining the game of football as a game and sport which should be played properly and with some dignity. The annoying thing is, they are capable of being brilliant footballers when they stop diving. Savage the talentless muppet excluded of course.

    The being FA full of people with no backbone doesn't help either. They're more interesting in talking to people who hold flags up or celebrate with the crowd than people who ruin the actual game itself.


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBaker
    Don't agree with that about the skill level, for example if we're talking skill and talent the last decent World Cup for me was 1982. If you don't believe me check out the game between Brazil V Italy (2-3) and then comeback with your skill levels have gone up line. That is still one of the greatest games of Football I have ever seen and remember this was still in the days when defenders had free reign.
    The speed of the opposition dictates the skill levels.

    For example, Maradonas 'wonder goal' against us wouldn't happen now, as defenders are so much quicker and fitter. The ball would have been taken off his feet.

    The pace of the game is so much faster that to even exhibit similar trickery to that seen in the 70s and 80s requires so much more ability.

    I can do fancy stepovers and flicks and tricks when nobody is near me.

    So, yes, the skill levels have defintiely gone up.


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBaker
    Don't agree with that about the skill level, for example if we're talking skill and talent the last decent World Cup for me was 1982. If you don't believe me check out the game between Brazil V Italy (2-3) and then comeback with your skill levels have gone up line. That is still one of the greatest games of Football I have ever seen and remember this was still in the days when defenders had free reign.
    An intereseting observation in this discussion is that the people who are decrying Burns' view and insisting that there is much more skill nowadays all seem to be of an age where they would not have seen Burns or his contemporaries play.


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBaker
    Don't agree with that about the skill level, for example if we're talking skill and talent the last decent World Cup for me was 1982. If you don't believe me check out the game between Brazil V Italy (2-3) and then comeback with your skill levels have gone up line. That is still one of the greatest games of Football I have ever seen and remember this was still in the days when defenders had free reign.
    I think there's a good chance people only say the standards are better now because Sky hype the living f**k out of their PL franchise. Take Andy McWankshaft Gray. Every little kick, he's there banging on about how wonderful "our" PL is. Its all marketing.

    [img width=94 height=108]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:thjdse6wUuTW_M:http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/object3/1595/121/n54257725490_9172.jpg[/img]


  19. #18
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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Maybe its an age thing but I preferred football pre premier league/premiership, and not just because Forest were a better team.

    There's no real excitement in the modern game, no competition in the top flight. Its become a game where the team with the biggest financial resources (whether self generated or due to a rich benefactor) can hire a bunch of faithless mercenaries to try and win. In reality the only competition teams care about is the Champions League, even the premier league title is irrelevant as the "big four" are almost nalied on certs to finish in the top four positions the second the season kicks off.

    Wouldn't you find it just a little more interesting if, once again, a small provincial club could get promoted to the top flight and have a good chance not only of not being 90% certain of relegation but of actually doing well? The only football I really watch is Forest because they're my team. I have little interest in the bore fests served up by the premier league or the perennial moaning of Sir Alex. Lets face it the most exciting thing the scouse have served up is conceeding a goal scored by a beach ball.

    Fuck 'em, I'm with Kenny.


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Further to that, those who rate Burns' style of pay all seem to be of an age where they would have been young men watching Burns.

    Much like I was a young man watching Collymore, and others are young men watching Earnshaw.

    I imaging that's the real indicator here. People idolise their heroes from their own era, and see the game, as played in their era, as at it's finest.

    For me, the Clark days were better than the Clough days, predominantly because I was at an age where I understood football, and what was going on.




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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mekon
    Wouldn't you find it just a little more interesting if, once again, a small provincial club could get promoted to the top flight and have a good chance not only of not being 90% certain of relegation but of actually doing well?
    Frank Clark's Forest did just that.


  22. #21
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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Who's done it in the last 15 years?


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Reading did ok for a couple of seasons. Stoke are doing ok.


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Nobody.

    That's what I meant about Clark's Forest being the team I remember fondest.

    Those three season, (promotion, third in Prem, Europe) were an amazing time to be a Forest fan.


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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm

    [img width=94 height=108]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:thjdse6wUuTW_M:http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/object3/1595/121/n54257725490_9172.jpg[/img]
    Shouldn't the bollocks be somewhere around his mouth?

    He seems to talk enough bollocks.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: Say it like it is Kenny (Burns)

    Quote Originally Posted by adamski
    Reading did ok for a couple of seasons. Stoke are doing ok.
    Reading finished 8th and Stoke are in the bottom half. Neither of them fit the description "doing well".

    It is as you say "doing OK".


 

 

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