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Thread: If we went up?

      
  1. #1
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    Default If we went up?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...lk_02_11_2009/

    If you listened to matchtalk, they talk about if we went up on there. The 1st caller was right on his high horse, but made an interesting point.

    He was saying he's sick of BD saying we're not ready for promotion, based on his experience at D*rby. The bloke's point was that at D*rby, BD bought quantity, not quality, and that's why they went down.

    He suggests that Forest would be fine if they spent all their promotion money on 2 or 3 key players, Clough style, to give the team a solid quality spine.

    Interesting insight I reckon. What do others think?

    Its worth listening alone for how well the bloke sticks it to the radio presenter

    EDIT: If we're looking there abouts in Jan, who might you bring in to bolster a promotion push, with an eye on them being Prem standard? We'd probably be looking at defenders?


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    You'd need more than 2 or 3 i reckon, and it's finding quality that is willing to come to high risk relegation candidates that would be the biggest problem.


  4. #3

    Default Re: If we went up?

    IF we managed to get up this season, remember there will be a lot of players at the World Cup this summer trying to showcase their talents and get a move to a Premiership club.

    Let's hope we are in a position to have to worry about this in May.


  5. #4
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    We would never survive if we went up buying two or three players.

    I agree with the comments about not signing journeymen, but why are the two mutually exclusive?

    We could buy three quality players and four or five players good enough to bolster the squad who aren't journeymen or extremely exciting youngsters.


  6. #5
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    We don't need 2 or 3 players though. We need a whole lot more. As they did at derby.

    We are not ready so is it worth it?


  7. #6

    Default Re: If we went up?

    Quote Originally Posted by mouldy
    We don't need 2 or 3 players though. We need a whole lot more. As they did at derby.

    We are not ready so is it worth it?
    When is a team ready for promotion? Any team that gets promoted to The Premiership will need heavy investment. Just look at some of the crap that has gone up over the past few years like Hull, Burnley, Brum, Stoke etc.....they seem to be doing ok don't they?


  8. #7
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    No Championship side is ever ready for the Premiership.

    The step up may have narrowed in recent years a little, but you won't see any side promoted and then fielding exactly the same side in the Premier League.

    Most sign between five and ten players and that's the right amount in my opinion. You need a bigger squad with more options because of the polarised quality of the teams in the league.

    However, signing five to ten players does not mean that you have to sign over the hill duffers.


  9. #8
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    I don't understand the "we're not ready" stance.

    I think it is unreasonable to think that in x seasons we will have a squad capable of successfully staying in the premier league because how possibly could any championship club achieve this? They are after all, championship clubs. To make the transition you need a decent squad and with a few additions you might stay up. Of course you must expect to go down because that is football and the nature of leagues.

    If i was to tell my sunday league team that we weren't ready for promotion i'd be laughed out of the club. Take what you can get i say.


  10. #9

    Default Re: If we went up?

    Quote Originally Posted by edgardinho
    I don't understand the "we're not ready" stance.

    I think it is unreasonable to think that in x seasons we will have a squad capable of successfully staying in the premier league because how possibly could any championship club achieve this? They are after all, championship clubs. To make the transition you need a decent squad and with a few additions you might stay up. Of course you must expect to go down because that is football and the nature of leagues.

    If i was to tell my sunday league team that we weren't ready for promotion i'd be laughed out of the club. Take what you can get i say.
    Get promoted and we have proven that we are one of the 3 best teams in the League (I know playoffs are a lottery) and we deserve our chance. Who's to say that next year there may be teams in the league with massive investment and blow everyone else away? This may be our best chance...go for it I say



  11. #10
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    the quality of the Wolves side last season, made me feel that they were ready for promotion...
    We're not as good as they were last season yet, but we're getting there...


  12. #11
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    By the way, I wasn't saying we're any less ready to go up than you say we are.

    If anything, I was agreeing with you, but adding that I don't think any team is every 'ready' to go up.

    The whole being ready thing is a myth as it's what you do once you're up that defines the side.


  13. #12
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    Hypothetically, if we got promoted tomorrow and we were forced to shed half our team - If you had to choose 2 players from each position to keep in the Prem, who would you go for?

    I'd go for

    Camp & Smith (Only choice although I'd be reluctant about playing smith in the prem)

    Gunter, Morgan - Gunters still young and would be a great investment for us. Morgan will never get knocked down. Besides that, I'd rather play an inflatable doll than Lynch in the top flight.

    Majewski, McKenna - Majewski is the same as Gunter. McKenna could be good for another year, he's the leader we've needed for so long. Anderson could also cut it, but I'd still choose those two.

    Blackstock & Earnie - Blackstock is a proven talent. I predict he'll be high up in the scoring charts this season. Earnie I don't know. Between him and Tys he just about cuts it. I think Garners been too complacent since he was signed and with how fickle referees are in the top flight, he'd be constantly banned.

    Adebola is just too old. He'd be a bit useless.



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  14. #13
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary MyJetski
    Hypothetically, if we got promoted tomorrow and we were forced to shed half our team - If you had to choose 2 players from each position to keep in the Prem, who would you go for?

    I'd go for

    Camp & Smith (Only choice although I'd be reluctant about playing smith in the prem)

    Gunter, Morgan - Gunters still young and would be a great investment for us. Morgan will never get knocked down. Besides that, I'd rather play an inflatable doll than Lynch in the top flight.

    Majewski, McKenna - Majewski is the same as Gunter. McKenna could be good for another year, he's the leader we've needed for so long. Anderson could also cut it, but I'd still choose those two.

    Blackstock & Earnie - Blackstock is a proven talent. I predict he'll be high up in the scoring charts this season. Earnie I don't know. Between him and Tys he just about cuts it. I think Garners been too complacent since he was signed and with how fickle referees are in the top flight, he'd be constantly banned.

    Adebola is just too old. He'd be a bit useless.

    I would keep :

    Camp

    Gunter and Cohen - the potential to play in the Prem. Maybe Wilson or Chambers could make the step up.
    Overall defence is where we are weakest imo. The team are extremely well organised, press hard and defend from the front, which has glossed over the lack of quality at the back.


    Majewski and McGugan - both have the potential to play in the Prem, possibly Moussi and Anderson.


    Blackstock and Earnshaw (maybe Garner for his potential).



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  15. #14
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    Camp Smith
    Gunter Cohen
    Majewski Moussi
    Dexter Tyson


  16. #15
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...lk_02_11_2009/

    If you listened to matchtalk, they talk about if we went up on there. The 1st caller was right on his high horse, but made an interesting point.

    He was saying he's sick of BD saying we're not ready for promotion, based on his experience at D*rby. The bloke's point was that at D*rby, BD bought quantity, not quality, and that's why they went down.

    He suggests that Forest would be fine if they spent all their promotion money on 2 or 3 key players, Clough style, to give the team a solid quality spine.

    Interesting insight I reckon. What do others think?

    Its worth listening alone for how well the bloke sticks it to the radio presenter

    EDIT: If we're looking there abouts in Jan, who might you bring in to bolster a promotion push, with an eye on them being Prem standard? We'd probably be looking at defenders?
    That first caller was absolutely spot on... Although I think he's taken the BD reports to heart.. BD says these things to take the pressure and expectation off, I don't doubt he thinks the team is almost good enough...


  17. #16
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan
    That first caller was absolutely spot on... Although I think he's taken the BD reports to heart.. BD says these things to take the pressure and expectation off, I don't doubt he thinks the team is almost good enough...
    I agree. If we did gain promotion this season then of course we would be light years behind the top teams. However we only need to compete with the bottom teams such as Stoke, Burnley, Hull, Brum, Wolves, Bolton, Portsmouth etc. I actually think that whilst the gap between the top 6 in the Prem and the rest has got wider, the gap between the bottom teams and the Championship has narrowed. Hull stayed up on only 35 (?) points last season, the lowest ever. The quality at the lower end of the Prem is pretty average. So with the addition of 3 or 4 quality (not quantity) players I think it is possible to be good enough to compete favourably with those lower teams. Also, by strengthening wisely, if the team does get relegated then they are in a much better position to go straight back up the following season (a la WBA).


  18. #17
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    I think BD is just trying to keep everyone from getting their hopes up to be honest. It's covering his own back as people will just pounce on him for promising us top flight football when in fact it's probable we'll lose out. (Newcastle, West Brom and Boro look more than likely).


  19. #18

    Default Re: If we went up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary MyJetski
    I think BD is just trying to keep everyone from getting their hopes up to be honest. It's covering his own back as people will just pounce on him for promising us top flight football when in fact it's probable we'll lose out. (Newcastle, West Brom and Boro look more than likely).
    I hope so... What our Billy says is in stark contrast to Roy Keane still who thinks Ipswich could get promoted despite their bad start although he thinks "gaining a top two place would be very difficult now" .

    http://www.greenun24.co.uk/content/g...2022:47:19:140


  20. #19
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    If we did go up we'd need to be very sensible about what we spent - it's not the transfer fees that hurt, but the increased wage bill. Hull City have gone from a wage bill of £4 million to £37 million in two years, and for what? A 4th bottom finish, and a likely relegation which will leave them in financial tatters with no star players to cash in on.

    As hard as it is to say, the WBA model is the one to follow, making sure you have assets to sell in the event of relegation, promotion/relegation clauses relating to salary in players contracts etc.


  21. #20
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    We'd get into the top four in the first year!

    "Ive only met Andy....last week actually and can confirm he is in 2nd place in sexiest fucker on here stakes." -Barry

  22. #21
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    Best goalkeeper in the country, I don't care what you say



    rofl


  23. #22
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    3 or 4 real quality players will be much more useful than 8 quite good ones. It only takes 1 piece of class to turn a loss into a draw and a draw into wins. 8 new average players will see us relegated. Trust me
    Look what Bryan Roy gave us. Look at how Geovanni kept Hull afloat. PVH would've done the same if it wasn't for him being a prick.
    Of course there is always the risk that some of them will get injured but that's the risk we must take if and when it arises.


  24. #23
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    If we were to go up with this squad - we would undoubtedly make a swift return to the Championship (although £50M+ richer). The current squad below & my thoughts on their capability of making the step up.

    1 Lee Camp - A solid back up keeper.
    2 James Perch - Potential is there. He's not world class, but could be a good squad player
    4 Luke Chambers - Back up, but no more.
    5 Wes Morgan - With the right partner maybe
    6 Kelvin Wilson - Same as Wes
    7 Paul Anderson - Will make the step up. Is learning & improving all the time.
    8 Lewis McGugan - He will play in the Premiership & do reasonably well.
    9 Dele Adebola - Would stay to see out the final year of his contract before retiring but unlikely to get much action
    10 Robert Earnshaw - An excellent striker if in the right team/formation
    11 Nathan Tyson - as a winger his pace will be useful
    12 Garath McCleary - unproven at this level. Doubtful.
    14 Joe Garner - Has the potential. I think he can make the step up if played as a forward.
    15 Chris Cohen - Can make the step up
    16 Chris Gunter - Can make the step up
    17 David McGoldrick - Has the potential
    18 Paul McKenna - Would be his swansong, but would do a job.
    19 Guy Moussi - Based upon the last few games I think he will make the grade. Needs to be consistent
    21 Paul Smith - Not at Forest I'm afraid. I rate him highly but we've killed his confidence.
    23 Dexter Blackstock - Dexter can make the step up.
    28 Radoslaw Majewski - Will play in the Prem. I hope it's with us.
    33 Joel Lynch - Not as a full back. Back up Centre Back? maybe
    35 Aaron Mitchell - Never seen him play. Highly rated, but not for a few years.
    Arron Davies - no squad number says all you need to know.

    We sometimes forget that our squad is very young and have a lot of potential. If that potential is realised, then there is no reason that with quite a few careful additions and shedding some dead-wood, we can't survive.

    New additions woukld need to be:
    A quality keeper.
    A left back.
    A centre Back
    2 more wide players.
    A defensive midfielder
    A quality striker.

    Our squad is too small for the Championship, so we need a larger squad if we do go up.

    The beast is stirring yet again!! :devil:

    it has nothing to do with football or NFFC

  25. #24
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarraclough
    3 or 4 real quality players will be much more useful than 8 quite good ones. It only takes 1 piece of class to turn a loss into a draw and a draw into wins. 8 new average players will see us relegated. Trust me
    Look what Bryan Roy gave us. Look at how Geovanni kept Hull afloat. PVH would've done the same if it wasn't for him being a prick.
    Of course there is always the risk that some of them will get injured but that's the risk we must take if and when it arises.
    That's basically what the bloke on the radio was saying, and the presenter wouldn't have it. I thought it was an interesting point, and its why I started the thread really.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: If we went up?

    I think if we did go up and made minimal signings then we would get at very least 12 points.

    I would be happy with this in many ways.


 

 

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