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Thread: Player Power

      
  1. #1
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    Default Player Power

    We've got threads for the incoming and outgoing managers. Taylor's player power reveal is nothing stunning but it does carry some weight. Here's a thread for that issue specifically, here and across the game.

    It's 2019, game's changed. Players have always acted up. We only had Clough here because of player power at Elland Road. Someone sticks his chin out at the manager these days, the manager can't punch him on it. I don't condone violence and I dislike being managed myself in an overly tough way, and we have here paralells with the education system. Are we producing better educated and better performing people nowadays when teachers basically have to appeal tot he better natures of pupils in order to get them to perform? I have no idea, there's probably strengths and weaknesses in both disciplinary models.

    It's 2019 and players are fucking raking it in. A lot of us can't afford to go to games anymore. They've got loads more money than us, and it feels like it comes from us, even if the truth is that it's mostly money gambled by the rich on achieving a personal goal.

    It's 2019. We would do well to decide what we deem acceptable.

    If a player is injured and fails to make a doctor's meeting, what is the benefit to the club and fans of telling him not to worry and we're sure he'll do better at driving his fucking Merc to a place where a guy will help him get playing again next time?

    If a player refuses to be subbed, or to warm down, is the relationship with a manager untenable? If the manager then goes, why the hell should players respect the next one?

    If a player runs his mouth to a fan and it makes social media, is that ok?

    If players don't like running around Woolaton Park, is it fair to grumble or should they be looking to the Miracle Men and humbly accepting that they've achieved fuck all and maybe a few laps in the footsteps of those who achieved everything might be healthy for the mind and body?


    We perhaps can't expect much else than what we get from these often rather uncomplicated individuals, give than a fine is something they won't notice, a month on the bench is a month making good money for nothing, and a kick out the door is a loyalty bonus one week and as signing bonus the next.

    You can't call it sporting, though. If O'Neill's career is finished, it died on the hill for a moral and sporting code that forms the foundation of MY love for the game. And that makes it a hero's death. I talk about Zombie Forest at times of upheaval, referring to the post-Doughty period. Perhaps this is a zombie sport.

    Have at it - what's the upper threshold of player power for you?


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  3. #2
    Billy Davies long lost lovechild.
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    Default Re: Player Power



    Leadership comes from the top, ours is absolutely piss weak.

    What players are/aren't allowed to get away with is irrelevant compared to the fact that they understand they are employed by the club, and have a duty to play for it.

    "The club's future is your future" was a mantra a certain ex manager of ours used to motivate average players into a playoff team. We need someone who can install that into the players, and letting the players motivate themselves is futile, as most of them are piss weak babies who fly high when the goings good, but crumble like flakes the second they stub their toe.

    The use of Carva to undermine the manager last year has now helped breed the same player-power culture which saw Fazza's sides slip further down the table each year. We're empowering pawns to be Kings. Talented, expensive pawns, but pawns none-the less.

    Hopefully the new chap can find some way of both wiping their arses & keeping them driven.


  4. #3
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Said ages ago that if it came to Carvalho vs O'Neill that there would only be one winner. Players are worth way, way more than managers now and football clubs are businesses, you protect your biggest investment, whether people like it or not. Not that there is any suggestion Carvalho was anything but professional.

    If you owned a business and your staff had been performing fairly well but you felt a change in management might push them that extra bit further but it had the opposite effect; morale drops and performance in the business suffers... you wouldn't fire your entire staff would you? You'd admit your mistake and fire that new manager.


  5. #4
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Think the 'player unrest' thing is a red herring, probably put out there by someone at the club to take heat away from the board. The board have probably been considering making a change for a while, but like with the Karanka saga they spent ages dithering until making the decision, plus Mendes probably is going to be involved in transfers so wanted to push one of his clients for the manager's job too.


  6. #5
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Look I didn’t like ONeil with our squad as it stands but the saddest thing I read all day was a player complain he got reprimanded for missing the team team coach, not that he was late that he missed it completely! That made me sad to read itsvlike what do you fucking expect. You get paid to be here you have obligations whether it’s minimum wage or thousands!


  7. #6
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    Think the 'player unrest' thing is a red herring, probably put out there by someone at the club to take heat away from the board. The board have probably been considering making a change for a while, but like with the Karanka saga they spent ages dithering until making the decision, plus Mendes probably is going to be involved in transfers so wanted to push one of his clients for the manager's job too.
    Honestly mate, the players will see the reports. Not that they care. But I would take umbrage to them if they were untrue. If true, they can't really do anything.

    It happened under Pearce, it happened under Karanka and it happened under O'Neil.

    It is what it is.


  8. #7
    Billy Davies long lost lovechild.
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    Default Re: Player Power

    As a club which sells it's best players most years, I really don't get the desire to build the rest of the club around said players.

    Our approach should always be to build a team of unified players, with the cost spread throughout as evenly as poss. That way you're entire team doesn't crumble when one or two players leave.


  9. #8
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    Default Re: Player Power

    100% Alpha Fail. Love your words you bring to the forum every now and then.

    These were the moments of player power.

    1.
    Adlène Guedioura, one of the club’s more experienced players, had been left out and remained on the bench as Forest huffed and puffed through a match that hardened the impression O’Neill’s team were falling short of the play-offs. At the end of the game it is customary for the unused substitutes to go through some warm-down exercises on the pitch with the fitness staff. Except Guedioura refused and, when challenged, he started protesting that the game was over and, as far as he was concerned, that meant he was on international duty.

    The flaw in that argument was that Guedioura had been left out of Algeria’s squad for their games against the Gambia and Tunisia. O’Neill was livid. There was a dressing-room confrontation and, perhaps unsurprisingly, Guedioura did not start another game for the two-times European Cup winner.
    2.
    In January, Forest signed a midfielder by the rather optimistic name of Pelé on loan from Monaco. Yet O’Neill cut that short when the player, nursing an injury, missed an appointment with the club’s doctor.
    3.
    One first-team player was dropped after reporting so late he missed the team coach.
    4.
    Another key performer – a player who also fell out with Karanka – was too loose-lipped on holiday and criticised O’Neill so strongly that it ended up on a supporter’s Facebook account and got back to the club.



  10. #9
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Not my favourite betting chain, for sure


  11. #10
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
    Not my favourite betting chain, for sure
    I prefer Sack365.

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  12. #11
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Player power resulting in the sacking of the manager confirms the weakness of the owner and the impossible position held by the new manager.

    I had hoped that this situation was only the hilarious upshot of a club rolling in billions of pounds of disposable money and that the sackings were the signs of the destruction of the type of club I despise.

    It appears we are one such club but without all the cash.

    Stupid.

    Stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid.

    By "relegation battle", do you mean 7th, 12th or 14th?

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  13. #12
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    Default Re: Player Power

    It's an interesting topic. I'm generally of a respectful demeanor who is thankful of the opportunities life has given me, so the stereotype of molly coddled millionaires getting upset about basic expectations such as looking after their fitness or being on time is naturally infuriating (I'm sure many on here are the same).

    I manage people for a living, and have had to make decisions which have upset individuals and sometimes vocal groups of individuals. I've seem others in my position do similar. Sometimes those voicing their objections need pinning up against the wall and having their obligations explained to them, whereas in others there has been a genuine case that the decision maker has been the issue and needs to be moved on for the team to progress.

    Furthermore, sometimes the stupid things (lateness/laziness) from the twits are indicative of a larger issue with the treatment of the decent hardworking ones, as any team or group of individuals is self policing in most regards, whether directly or indirectly.

    I have to assume this is the same for football. Therefore, I think it's possible the club made a legitimate decision in sacking MON due to disgruntled players - we shouldn't get sucked in by a few examples of player bad behaviour which we would celebrate MON for challenging (and which will go on at every club).

    However, if I had to make a bet, I'd echo others' opinion on here that MON's future was set as soon as we couldn't make the playoffs mathematically, and that player power is just deflection away from the board sacking a club legend.





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  14. #13
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    Default Re: Player Power

    You'll never rid a football team of dissenting players, them who dont play for starters. Manager needs to manage the team from top to bottom to make himself bulletproof.

    Have we had one of them since Davies? Maybe SOD, but very few.

    In Martins case, you cant expect players to play out some crazy muddled brief in front of 30k fans without having something to say about it.


  15. #14
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    You'll never rid a football team of dissenting players, them who dont play for starters. Manager needs to manage the team from top to bottom to make himself bulletproof.

    Have we had one of them since Davies? Maybe SOD, but very few.

    In Martins case, you cant expect players to play out some crazy muddled brief in front of 30k fans without having something to say about it.
    Perhaps the brief was fine but the players were acting up?


  16. #15
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes' Organ View Post
    Perhaps the brief was fine but the players were acting up?
    Which of the 6 different briefs are you referring to?


  17. #16
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    Which of the 6 different briefs are you referring to?
    I didn't know that there were 6 briefs?
    Perhaps there was just one brief and too many cocks spoiling the broth on the pitch?


  18. #17
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    Which of the 6 different briefs are you referring to?
    I can only think of Pants.

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  19. #18
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes' Organ View Post
    I didn't know that there were 6 briefs?
    Perhaps there was just one brief and too many cocks spoiling the broth on the pitch?
    Messing with formations & positions, hoofball, hoofball with a high press, then the ball goes on the floor, we've been all over the place. Understandable when your trying to assess our strengths, less understandable when you consider we weren't far off & on the brink of the play offs.

    My guess is the players expected to come in to a coherent plan that wasn't there. Did anyone want anymore of the chopping & changing that killed our chances of success last season?


  20. #19
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    Messing with formations & positions, hoofball, hoofball with a high press, then the ball goes on the floor, we've been all over the place. Understandable when your trying to assess our strengths, less understandable when you consider we weren't far off & on the brink of the play offs.

    My guess is the players expected to come in to a coherent plan that wasn't there. Did anyone want anymore of the chopping & changing that killed our chances of success last season?
    Remember that barring the Leeds game we had been terrible for about 6 weeks prior to MON arriving so whatever formula we had been using wasn't working. It isn't unreasonable to try different things to try and get back on track quickly.
    I think that we had settled on a more steady 5231 towards the end of the season and was looking pretty good.


  21. #20
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    Default Re: Player Power

    The poor little darlings must get frustrated knowing they won't be half the player the manager was. Same happened with Pearce. How dare the manager be more popular than rthem


  22. #21
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes' Organ View Post
    Remember that barring the Leeds game we had been terrible for about 6 weeks prior to MON arriving so whatever formula we had been using wasn't working. It isn't unreasonable to try different things to try and get back on track quickly.
    I think that we had settled on a more steady 5231 towards the end of the season and was looking pretty good.
    We'd lost three all season to that point, you dont rip that up given all the extenuating circumstances under AK.


  23. #22
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Surely this thread should be renamed: "Guedioura power"?

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  24. #23
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    We'd lost three all season to that point, you dont rip that up given all the extenuating circumstances under AK.
    We were on a shocking run when Karanka left and were drawing far too many games to get promoted for a bad run to not have a massive impact on the chance of promotion.
    We wasn't getting promoted under Karanka and we didn't get promoted under MON.


  25. #24
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    Default Re: Player Power

    Quote Originally Posted by incapable hulk View Post
    Surely this thread should be renamed: "Guedioura power"?
    Seriously mate, Guedioura will have zero sway in that team. Your barking up the wrong tree.

    Even if your right, it aint like Martin didn't set himself right up there to be shot at. He never came across to me as anything other than a guy who seemed a bit lost in the whole thing.

    We just cant have a sitting duck managing us.


  26. #25

    Default Re: Player Power

    Not buying it all.

    We must the only club who has this issue, eh?

    Football has changed. Like it or lump it, it's changed.

    Players do have power, they don't respond like they used to in the 90's/00's. They have to be encouraged and pampered. Just the way it is.

    If you don't treat them right, they'll get you done. Get rid of them all and bring a new set in, it'll happen again.

    Management has changed, hence why younger managers are having success. There are some older heads who do to, but the likes of Bielsa say, encourage, get players to express themselves... That's the game now.

    O'Neill was left behind, and i'm delighted he's gone.


 

 

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